You think you write crap -- you ain't seen nothing yet

[Paulo Joe Jingy]

FADE IN:

INT. SUV -- DAY

The light of the setting sun shines through the windshield.
All the other windows are covered with towels for privacy.

Boxes, household items and some toys are tightly packed in
the back, and in any spare crevice.

Two people live in this "home". A young mother AMANDA, in
her late twenties, and her young son, JASON, five. She
reclines in the front passenger seat, he sits behind the
driver's seat.

Stressed and tired, she tries hard to be patient with him.

JASON
But this is Daddy's car.

AMANDA
I know, honey.

JASON
When he comes back--

AMANDA
--It's been over a year. He's not
coming back.

JASON
Yes he is!

She starts to snap an answer, thinks better of it, and hugs
him instead.

AMANDA
Sweetheart, I'm sorry, we have to
sell the car. I don't want to argue.

He pulls away from her looking down at the floor.

JASON
OK, Mommy.

AMANDA
We have to get off the street.

JASON
OK.

She kisses him.

AMANDA
That's a big boy.

He yawns, then so does she.

She lays a blanket down beside him, takes his shoes off and
tucks him in. Caressing his hair she quietly hums a lullaby.
Soon he's sound asleep.

Shifting her seat upright, she prepares for another long
night on guard duty. She stares at the empty driver's seat.

AMANDA
Where are you tonight, Michael?

A BUMP on the windshield. She jumps. Outside there's a
homeless drunk, who leers in and makes obscene gestures.

She sits still, ramrod straight, watching until he walks
off. When he's finally gone she breaks down and sobs quietly.

INT. SUV -- MORNING

Amanda and Jason are in a fresh change of clothes. He munches
on some crackers and draws on a clipboard, with crayons.

Reclining her seat all the way back, she leans over to him
and hands him her watch.

AMANDA
I need to get some rest, sweetheart.
When both hands get to the top - to
twelve - could you wake me up, please?

JASON
OK, Mommy. How do you spell bunny?

AMANDA
B-U-N-N-Y.

He carefully writes it down.

JASON
B-U-N-N-Y.

INT. SUV -- NOON

Jason gently shakes his mother. When she opens her eyes, he
shows her the watch. She stretches, then ruffles his hair.

AMANDA
Hi kiddo. What did you do this
morning?

JASON
I wrote a book.

AMANDA
A whole book?

JASON
Jason's book of magic. Like Daddy's.

Her smile evaporates and the sadness returns.

AMANDA
Jason, I don't think that's a good
idea. Your daddy--

JASON
--The bad guys got him.

She turns away from him.

JASON
It's a happy book, Mommy. Can I read
it to you?

AMANDA
What about later? We need to get--

JASON
--It's short.

AMANDA
We really should... Oh, OK.

Excited, he shows her the folder cover, with a colorful
picture of a stick-figure, little boy and the title.

JASON
Jason's book of magic.

He opens up the folder, but before he can start reading
there's a loud THUMP on the window and the leering drunk
stares inside again.

His mother jumps, but Jason just laughs and starts reading.

JASON
Rain. Outside.

Instantly the sun is gone and rain pours down. They watch
the pervert as he scuttles away.

Turning the page, he smiles mischievously at his mother.

JASON
Rain. Go away.

And it does, the sun shines again. Amanda is open-mouthed
and silent. The next page has a big red balloon on it.

JASON
Red balloon. Inside.

A huge, red balloon fills half the space inside. He reads
the next page.

JASON
Red balloon. Go away.

It disappears. Then he's on to the next page.

JASON
Bunny. Inside.

A bunny jumps on his mother's lap. Amanda tries to stay calm.

JASON
Do you like the bunny, Mommy?

AMANDA
Not when he jumps in like that.

He turns the page.

JASON
OK -- Bunny. Go away.

The bunny vanishes. He reads from another page.

JASON
Daddy. Inside.

A bedraggled man is in the driver's seat, mouth gagged with
his hands tied behind him.

Amanda screams, then looks more closely at her husband,
MICHAEL, thirty, in threadbare clothes.

She quickly unties the gag and then his hands.

MICHAEL
How did you--

AMANDA
--It was your son.

Grinning, Michael looks proudly back at his boy.

MICHAEL
You've grown, Jason.
(to Amanda)
I guess you have to believe now.

Overwhelmed, she hugs him, burying her head on his shoulder.

AMANDA
Where were you?

MICHAEL
I was...
(looks back at Jason)
The bad guys got me.

A few seconds pass, then Jason tugs on his mother's shirt.

JASON
I have to finish the book now, Mommy.

At first she nods at him. A moment later she's horrified.

AMANDA
No!

JASON
It's magic, Mommy.

AMANDA
No! You can stop reading now.

Michael gently pushes her away from him.

MICHAEL
He's right, Amanda. If he doesn't
finish it, everything unravels.

AMANDA
I can't lose you again.

MICHAEL
You will, if he doesn't finish.

AMANDA
But, Michael, in his book, everything
goes away.

She fights back tears. He holds her close, nods to his son.

JASON
It's a happy book, Mommy.

Turning to the last page, he reads.

JASON
Daddy--

AMANDA
--Please, stop now.

He starts reading again.

JASON
Daddy... Kiss Mommy.

He does and she kisses him back. Jason giggles a little and
finishes the book.

JASON
The end.

FADE OUT:

[RonB]

Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
INT. SUV -- DAY
The light of the setting sun shines through the windshield. All the
other windows are covered with towels for privacy.
Boxes, household items and some toys are tightly packed in the
back, and in any spare crevice.

It looks like you an I have a whole different definition of "crap." Thanks
for posting -- and making me feel even more inadequate.

[RonB]

Post by RonB

Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
INT. SUV -- DAY
The light of the setting sun shines through the windshield. All
the other windows are covered with towels for privacy.
Boxes, household items and some toys are tightly packed in the
back, and in any spare crevice.

It looks like you an I have a whole different definition of "crap."
Thanks for posting -- and making me feel even more inadequate.

Jerk.

[Nicole Massey]

Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
INT. SUV -- DAY
The light of the setting sun shines through the windshield.
All the other windows are covered with towels for privacy.
Boxes, household items and some toys are tightly packed in
the back, and in any spare crevice.
Two people live in this "home". A young mother AMANDA, in
her late twenties, and her young son, JASON, five. She
reclines in the front passenger seat, he sits behind the
driver's seat.
Stressed and tired, she tries hard to be patient with him.
JASON
But this is Daddy's car.
AMANDA
I know, honey.
JASON
When he comes back--
AMANDA
--It's been over a year. He's not
coming back.
JASON
Yes he is!
She starts to snap an answer, thinks better of it, and hugs
him instead.
AMANDA
Sweetheart, I'm sorry, we have to
sell the car. I don't want to argue.
He pulls away from her looking down at the floor.
JASON
OK, Mommy.
AMANDA
We have to get off the street.
JASON
OK.
She kisses him.
AMANDA
That's a big boy.
He yawns, then so does she.
She lays a blanket down beside him, takes his shoes off and
tucks him in. Caressing his hair she quietly hums a lullaby.
Soon he's sound asleep.
Shifting her seat upright, she prepares for another long
night on guard duty. She stares at the empty driver's seat.
AMANDA
Where are you tonight, Michael?
A BUMP on the windshield. She jumps. Outside there's a
homeless drunk, who leers in and makes obscene gestures.
She sits still, ramrod straight, watching until he walks
off. When he's finally gone she breaks down and sobs quietly.
INT. SUV -- MORNING
Amanda and Jason are in a fresh change of clothes. He munches
on some crackers and draws on a clipboard, with crayons.
Reclining her seat all the way back, she leans over to him
and hands him her watch.
AMANDA
I need to get some rest, sweetheart.
When both hands get to the top - to
twelve - could you wake me up, please?
JASON
OK, Mommy. How do you spell bunny?
AMANDA
B-U-N-N-Y.
He carefully writes it down.
JASON
B-U-N-N-Y.
INT. SUV -- NOON
Jason gently shakes his mother. When she opens her eyes, he
shows her the watch. She stretches, then ruffles his hair.
AMANDA
Hi kiddo. What did you do this
morning?
JASON
I wrote a book.
AMANDA
A whole book?
JASON
Jason's book of magic. Like Daddy's.
Her smile evaporates and the sadness returns.
AMANDA
Jason, I don't think that's a good
idea. Your daddy--
JASON
--The bad guys got him.
She turns away from him.
JASON
It's a happy book, Mommy. Can I read
it to you?
AMANDA
What about later? We need to get--
JASON
--It's short.
AMANDA
We really should... Oh, OK.
Excited, he shows her the folder cover, with a colorful
picture of a stick-figure, little boy and the title.
JASON
Jason's book of magic.
He opens up the folder, but before he can start reading
there's a loud THUMP on the window and the leering drunk
stares inside again.
His mother jumps, but Jason just laughs and starts reading.
JASON
Rain. Outside.
Instantly the sun is gone and rain pours down. They watch
the pervert as he scuttles away.
Turning the page, he smiles mischievously at his mother.
JASON
Rain. Go away.
And it does, the sun shines again. Amanda is open-mouthed
and silent. The next page has a big red balloon on it.
JASON
Red balloon. Inside.
A huge, red balloon fills half the space inside. He reads
the next page.
JASON
Red balloon. Go away.
It disappears. Then he's on to the next page.
JASON
Bunny. Inside.
A bunny jumps on his mother's lap. Amanda tries to stay calm.
JASON
Do you like the bunny, Mommy?
AMANDA
Not when he jumps in like that.
He turns the page.
JASON
OK -- Bunny. Go away.
The bunny vanishes. He reads from another page.
JASON
Daddy. Inside.
A bedraggled man is in the driver's seat, mouth gagged with
his hands tied behind him.
Amanda screams, then looks more closely at her husband,
MICHAEL, thirty, in threadbare clothes.
She quickly unties the gag and then his hands.
MICHAEL
How did you--
AMANDA
--It was your son.
Grinning, Michael looks proudly back at his boy.
MICHAEL
You've grown, Jason.
(to Amanda)
I guess you have to believe now.
Overwhelmed, she hugs him, burying her head on his shoulder.
AMANDA
Where were you?
MICHAEL
I was...
(looks back at Jason)
The bad guys got me.
A few seconds pass, then Jason tugs on his mother's shirt.
JASON
I have to finish the book now, Mommy.
At first she nods at him. A moment later she's horrified.
AMANDA
No!
JASON
It's magic, Mommy.
AMANDA
No! You can stop reading now.
Michael gently pushes her away from him.
MICHAEL
He's right, Amanda. If he doesn't
finish it, everything unravels.
AMANDA
I can't lose you again.
MICHAEL
You will, if he doesn't finish.
AMANDA
But, Michael, in his book, everything
goes away.
She fights back tears. He holds her close, nods to his son.
JASON
It's a happy book, Mommy.
Turning to the last page, he reads.
JASON
Daddy--
AMANDA
--Please, stop now.
He starts reading again.
JASON
Daddy... Kiss Mommy.
He does and she kisses him back. Jason giggles a little and
finishes the book.
JASON
The end.

It could make an interesting short, but I'd rather see this in F&SF as a
short story. It has the makings of a good short short, which are rare these
days, as most people can't do an effective story in under a thousand words.

[RonB]

Post by Nicole Massey
It could make an interesting short, but I'd rather see this in F&SF as a
short story. It has the makings of a good short short, which are rare
these days, as most people can't do an effective story in under a
thousand words.

It's my theory that most shorts -- at least most of them that I've written
(and I think that goes for my brother as well) -- are really short stories
in disguise. My brother is better at this than I am, however.

[Paulo Joe Jingy]

Post by Nicole Massey
It could make an interesting short, but I'd rather see this in F&SF as a
short story. It has the makings of a good short short, which are rare these
days, as most people can't do an effective story in under a thousand words.

Hello Nicole,

Almost all the short screenplays I write (usually for an online contest site) start out as short stories. Including this one. Then I convert them to screenplays.

[Nicole Massey]

Post by Paulo Joe Jingy

Post by Nicole Massey
It could make an interesting short, but I'd rather see this in F&SF as a
short story. It has the makings of a good short short, which are rare these
days, as most people can't do an effective story in under a thousand words.

Hello Nicole,
Almost all the short screenplays I write (usually for an online contest
site) start out as short stories. Including this one. Then I convert
them to screenplays.

Yeah, I still don't have that skill down yet. Other things, like creating
new content, get in the way of my plans to get the skills to turn ideas
into screenplays.

[Paulo Joe Jingy]

Post by Nicole Massey
Yeah, I still don't have that skill down yet. Other things, like creating
new content, get in the way of my plans to get the skills to turn ideas
into screenplays.

Most of the people who used to show on this newsgroup (especially Skip Press) would say that I don't have the skills to turn ideas into screenplays either.

But I have fun anyway.

[Batman]

Would be easy to film, actually.

M
http://my168project.com
http://fb.com/Team33Productions
@MatchesMalone
You May Already Be, On Team 33....

Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
INT. SUV -- DAY
The light of the setting sun shines through the windshield.
All the other windows are covered with towels for privacy.
Boxes, household items and some toys are tightly packed in
the back, and in any spare crevice.
Two people live in this "home". A young mother AMANDA, in
her late twenties, and her young son, JASON, five. She
reclines in the front passenger seat, he sits behind the
driver's seat.
Stressed and tired, she tries hard to be patient with him.
JASON
But this is Daddy's car.
AMANDA
I know, honey.
JASON
When he comes back--
AMANDA
--It's been over a year. He's not
coming back.
JASON
Yes he is!
She starts to snap an answer, thinks better of it, and hugs
him instead.
AMANDA
Sweetheart, I'm sorry, we have to
sell the car. I don't want to argue.
He pulls away from her looking down at the floor.
JASON
OK, Mommy.
AMANDA
We have to get off the street.
JASON
OK.
She kisses him.
AMANDA
That's a big boy.
He yawns, then so does she.
She lays a blanket down beside him, takes his shoes off and
tucks him in. Caressing his hair she quietly hums a lullaby.
Soon he's sound asleep.
Shifting her seat upright, she prepares for another long
night on guard duty. She stares at the empty driver's seat.
AMANDA
Where are you tonight, Michael?
A BUMP on the windshield. She jumps. Outside there's a
homeless drunk, who leers in and makes obscene gestures.
She sits still, ramrod straight, watching until he walks
off. When he's finally gone she breaks down and sobs quietly.
INT. SUV -- MORNING
Amanda and Jason are in a fresh change of clothes. He munches
on some crackers and draws on a clipboard, with crayons.
Reclining her seat all the way back, she leans over to him
and hands him her watch.
AMANDA
I need to get some rest, sweetheart.
When both hands get to the top - to
twelve - could you wake me up, please?
JASON
OK, Mommy. How do you spell bunny?
AMANDA
B-U-N-N-Y.
He carefully writes it down.
JASON
B-U-N-N-Y.
INT. SUV -- NOON
Jason gently shakes his mother. When she opens her eyes, he
shows her the watch. She stretches, then ruffles his hair.
AMANDA
Hi kiddo. What did you do this
morning?
JASON
I wrote a book.
AMANDA
A whole book?
JASON
Jason's book of magic. Like Daddy's.
Her smile evaporates and the sadness returns.
AMANDA
Jason, I don't think that's a good
idea. Your daddy--
JASON
--The bad guys got him.
She turns away from him.
JASON
It's a happy book, Mommy. Can I read
it to you?
AMANDA
What about later? We need to get--
JASON
--It's short.
AMANDA
We really should... Oh, OK.
Excited, he shows her the folder cover, with a colorful
picture of a stick-figure, little boy and the title.
JASON
Jason's book of magic.
He opens up the folder, but before he can start reading
there's a loud THUMP on the window and the leering drunk
stares inside again.
His mother jumps, but Jason just laughs and starts reading.
JASON
Rain. Outside.
Instantly the sun is gone and rain pours down. They watch
the pervert as he scuttles away.
Turning the page, he smiles mischievously at his mother.
JASON
Rain. Go away.
And it does, the sun shines again. Amanda is open-mouthed
and silent. The next page has a big red balloon on it.
JASON
Red balloon. Inside.
A huge, red balloon fills half the space inside. He reads
the next page.
JASON
Red balloon. Go away.
It disappears. Then he's on to the next page.
JASON
Bunny. Inside.
A bunny jumps on his mother's lap. Amanda tries to stay calm.
JASON
Do you like the bunny, Mommy?
AMANDA
Not when he jumps in like that.
He turns the page.
JASON
OK -- Bunny. Go away.
The bunny vanishes. He reads from another page.
JASON
Daddy. Inside.
A bedraggled man is in the driver's seat, mouth gagged with
his hands tied behind him.
Amanda screams, then looks more closely at her husband,
MICHAEL, thirty, in threadbare clothes.
She quickly unties the gag and then his hands.
MICHAEL
How did you--
AMANDA
--It was your son.
Grinning, Michael looks proudly back at his boy.
MICHAEL
You've grown, Jason.
(to Amanda)
I guess you have to believe now.
Overwhelmed, she hugs him, burying her head on his shoulder.
AMANDA
Where were you?
MICHAEL
I was...
(looks back at Jason)
The bad guys got me.
A few seconds pass, then Jason tugs on his mother's shirt.
JASON
I have to finish the book now, Mommy.
At first she nods at him. A moment later she's horrified.
AMANDA
No!
JASON
It's magic, Mommy.
AMANDA
No! You can stop reading now.
Michael gently pushes her away from him.
MICHAEL
He's right, Amanda. If he doesn't
finish it, everything unravels.
AMANDA
I can't lose you again.
MICHAEL
You will, if he doesn't finish.
AMANDA
But, Michael, in his book, everything
goes away.
She fights back tears. He holds her close, nods to his son.
JASON
It's a happy book, Mommy.
Turning to the last page, he reads.
JASON
Daddy--
AMANDA
--Please, stop now.
He starts reading again.
JASON
Daddy... Kiss Mommy.
He does and she kisses him back. Jason giggles a little and
finishes the book.
JASON
The end.

[j***@gmail.com]

Hi, Paulo --

Did you see the post (also posted on mws) of May 3 titled something like "1st RFD..." about removing mwsm?

Assuming it's legit, it appears that Alan no longer wishes or is able to moderate.

I think more people could be lured back if some of the other trolls (beyond the guy who was the original and sole target) were screened out, and of course, all the spam. And from the message that accompanies the post, it seems that those things would be allowed. I thought our "charter" prohibited it.

But without all the spam and the foreign language stuff (which, when translated, is just spam) and all the O.T. stuff, I think we'd get more people back -- worth a try. I just don't think that Facebook is a good way for ongoing topic-related discussion -- plus I don't like the way they track you and give out your info, etc.

Well ... is this something that you and Ron (i.e., RonB) might be interested in?

I plan soon to launch a blog, and I could direct people here. And I'll soon have a new web site with articles posted, and again, I could refer folks here. And there are other places to do that ... some of the Yahoo groups, etc.

Maybe even some of the old regulars would come back. It wasn't enough to just screen out whatsisname. There were other nasty, trolly guys, too, and mass-postings, and especially all the spam.

Maybe you could talk to Alan to see how much training and time it would take for you two to do that.

I'm not good, tech-wise, plus since I have a related business, it would appear as a conflict-of-interest.

Anyway, why don't you ping Alan ... I may have his email somewhere if you want to email him directly (if so, email me directly -- s t orynotes @ a ol.com [with the blank spaces removed])... and ask him if this is something you two could do, and once the new systems/standards were in place, how much time per day it would take. Maybe two 15-minute sessions per day? Or 3 10-minute sessions?

I'd come back as a contributor ... as Jeff Newman, not as StoryNotes, and only on occasion putting a link to my sites. I think a fair number of former posters, and some new ones, would, too.

Why not give it a try?

Hope you consider it (you, too, RonB).

Best wishes,

Jeff Newman

[RonB]

Post by j***@gmail.com
I'd come back as a contributor ... as Jeff Newman, not as StoryNotes,
and only on occasion putting a link to my sites. I think a fair number
of former posters, and some new ones, would, too.
Why not give it a try?
Hope you consider it (you, too, RonB).
Best wishes,
Jeff Newman

Hi Jeff, good to see you. I would also like to see MWSM continue -- not
sure what all that is required to keep it going. "Paulo" saw your post
but, before he could respond, Time Warner in his area "bit the dust" this
afternoon, so he's temporarily "stranded" without Internet -- otherwise he
would have already responded. (Thankfully, I have Charter in my area.)

I see that Alan has responded to your other post, it sounds like something
could be worked out. I will be happy to help out on the technical side and
(I think) "Paulo" would be happy to help out on the moderating side. It
sounds like Alan is not completely adverse to continue moderating, but
whatever is best for him. I appreciate the years he's put into this. I
definitely would be willing to add SPAM removal to the group's charter.

After all this time I still scan this newsgroup daily -- not much to see
lately but, like you, I'm not interested in FaceBook (or Google Plus, or
Twitter or the whole lot). I guess I'm stuck at the turn of the century.

Anyhow, good to see you. If there is anything I can do to help keep this
newsgroup alive, count me in. "Paulo" also is interested. He's actually
still involved with writing screenplays ... me, not so much. But I like
the "water cooler" anyhow.

[Kathy Morgan]

Post by RonB
Hi Jeff, good to see you. I would also like to see MWSM continue -- not
sure what all that is required to keep it going.

(snip)

Post by RonB
Anyhow, good to see you. If there is anything I can do to help keep this
newsgroup alive, count me in. "Paulo" also is interested. He's actually
still involved with writing screenplays ... me, not so much. But I like
the "water cooler" anyhow.

There are two things needed to keep MWSM going: one is to post
expressions of support for the group to news.groups.proposals, where the
members of the Big 8 Management Board will see them.
news.groups.proposals is moderated for topicality and civility and is
the official newsgroup for discussing RFD's (Requests For Discussion)
regarding creation or removal of newsgroups in the Big 8 (which includes
MWSM). An RFD for removal of MWSM has been posted and if no one
protests the removal in news.groups.proposals the group almost certainly
will be removed. The B8MB wants evidence that there still are users who
care and that the group would be used.

The second thing needed is a candidate (or better yet candidates) to
volunteer to take over moderation of the group, or possibly persuade
Alan to continue with the group. The candidate(s) should be acceptable
to both the B8MB and the people who use the group. It sounds to me like
you, Jeff and "Paulo" would probably fit the bill if the idea appeals to
you.

Paul Schleck emailed some information to Jeff Newman with information
about the WebSTUMP moderation platform, and I think it's very likely
that Paul would assist in setting that up if a moderation team
materialized. I know from personal experience that actually using
WebSTUMP once it has been set up is super-easy; I'm co-moderator for 4
groups that use it.

[RonB]

Post by Kathy Morgan
There are two things needed to keep MWSM going: one is to post
expressions of support for the group to news.groups.proposals, where the
members of the Big 8 Management Board will see them.
news.groups.proposals is moderated for topicality and civility and is
the official newsgroup for discussing RFD's (Requests For Discussion)
regarding creation or removal of newsgroups in the Big 8 (which includes
MWSM). An RFD for removal of MWSM has been posted and if no one
protests the removal in news.groups.proposals the group almost certainly
will be removed. The B8MB wants evidence that there still are users who
care and that the group would be used.

Thanks. I had no idea how this all worked. I'll subscribe to
news.groups.proposals. How quickly will this removal process work, if no
one (or few) express(es) support for keeping MWSM?

[c***@panix.com]

Post by RonB

Post by Kathy Morgan
There are two things needed to keep MWSM going: one is to post
expressions of support for the group to news.groups.proposals, where the
members of the Big 8 Management Board will see them.
news.groups.proposals is moderated for topicality and civility and is
the official newsgroup for discussing RFD's (Requests For Discussion)
regarding creation or removal of newsgroups in the Big 8 (which includes
MWSM). An RFD for removal of MWSM has been posted and if no one
protests the removal in news.groups.proposals the group almost certainly
will be removed. The B8MB wants evidence that there still are users who
care and that the group would be used.

Thanks. I had no idea how this all worked. I'll subscribe to
news.groups.proposals. How quickly will this removal process work, if no
one (or few) express(es) support for keeping MWSM?
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere."

Hey Ron & everyone else who's not a spammer,

Long time, no post. Sorry I've been absent, but the relatively lively and focused conversations on this group's Facebook sister page has rendered mwsm moot for me and, I guess, for many of the other regulars.

I haven't meant to desert the usenet group, but like all of us, have limited time to spend on internet conversation, and have pretty much made my choice to spend it on the Facebook group.

That doesn't mean I can't keep supporting the group if you find it useful and want to to remain as it is. We could even open up discussions about updating the charter and perhaps filtering out some or all of the spam - it's our charter; we can do what we want with it.

I started the conversation with the Big-8 Board about shutting off the moderation account, because a quick look-over of MWSM posts showed all spam - sorry Nicole, Ron, Paulo & Jeff, that I missed your posts.

I don't *have* to shut down the moderation account. It's costing me about $100/year to keep it running, but I don't mind the expense. If somebody else wants to take it over, there are other, potentially more convenient ways to moderate, including manual moderation, web-based moderation, or more tightly locked-down filtering which can be done using the same program I currently run.

Would love to hear everyone's preferences.

Cheers,

Alan Brooks
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A Schmuck with an Underwood

~~

MWSM Procrastination Bureau Chief

[Nicole Massey]

Post by c***@panix.com

Post by RonB

Post by Kathy Morgan
There are two things needed to keep MWSM going: one is to post
expressions of support for the group to news.groups.proposals, where the
members of the Big 8 Management Board will see them.
news.groups.proposals is moderated for topicality and civility and is
the official newsgroup for discussing RFD's (Requests For Discussion)
regarding creation or removal of newsgroups in the Big 8 (which includes
MWSM). An RFD for removal of MWSM has been posted and if no one
protests the removal in news.groups.proposals the group almost certainly
will be removed. The B8MB wants evidence that there still are users who
care and that the group would be used.

Thanks. I had no idea how this all worked. I'll subscribe to
news.groups.proposals. How quickly will this removal process work, if no
one (or few) express(es) support for keeping MWSM?
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere."

Hey Ron & everyone else who's not a spammer,
Long time, no post. Sorry I've been absent, but the relatively lively and
focused conversations on this group's Facebook sister page has rendered
mwsm moot for me and, I guess, for many of the other regulars.
I haven't meant to desert the usenet group, but like all of us, have
limited time to spend on internet conversation, and have pretty much made
my choice to spend it on the Facebook group.
That doesn't mean I can't keep supporting the group if you find it useful
and want to to remain as it is. We could even open up discussions about
updating the charter and perhaps filtering out some or all of the spam -
it's our charter; we can do what we want with it.
I started the conversation with the Big-8 Board about shutting off the
moderation account, because a quick look-over of MWSM posts showed all
spam - sorry Nicole, Ron, Paulo & Jeff, that I missed your posts.
I don't *have* to shut down the moderation account. It's costing me about
$100/year to keep it running, but I don't mind the expense. If somebody
else wants to take it over, there are other, potentially more convenient
ways to moderate, including manual moderation, web-based moderation, or
more tightly locked-down filtering which can be done using the same
program I currently run.
Would love to hear everyone's preferences.

I'd like to keep this group alive, sans the spam. Facebook is already
flagging in traffic, like any BBS, while Usenet has shown it can last a lot
longer, and the distributed nature of archives means that important posts
are availible a lot longer and without the problem of a fit of pique or
failure to keep on top of things bringing about the dumping of all messages.
Also, Usenet is far easier for people to use accessible programs to access
it, while FB takes forever to do things thanks to its bloated nature and
sketchy accessibility.

[Kathy Morgan]

[I wanted to crosspost this to news.groups.proposals, but wasn't able to
due to the moderation policies in the two groups, so I'll be
multi-posting it.]

Post by c***@panix.com

Post by RonB

There are two things needed to keep MWSM going: (snip)

Thanks. I had no idea how this all worked. I'll subscribe to
news.groups.proposals. How quickly will this removal process work, if no
one (or few) express(es) support for keeping MWSM?

Thanks, Ron, for posting in news.groups.proposals.

With no response from anyone in MWSM, it would be about 10 days from
posting of the RFD to removal of the group. If there were no desire for
the group, why delay formally removing it? Since it appears to me, at
least, that there is still at least some desire for the group and people
who may use it, we can slow things down and give time for a reasoned
decision with input from group regulars. It would be helpful, though,
if more of the supporters would post that support to
news.groups.proposals.

Post by c***@panix.com
Hey Ron & everyone else who's not a spammer,
Long time, no post. Sorry I've been absent, but the relatively lively and
focused conversations on this group's Facebook sister page has rendered
mwsm moot for me and, I guess, for many of the other regulars.
I haven't meant to desert the usenet group, but like all of us, have
limited time to spend on internet conversation, and have pretty much
made my choice to spend it on the Facebook group.
That doesn't mean I can't keep supporting the group if you find it useful
and want to to remain as it is. We could even open up discussions about
updating the charter and perhaps filtering out some or all of the spam -
it's our charter; we can do what we want with it.
I started the conversation with the Big-8 Board about shutting off the
moderation account, because a quick look-over of MWSM posts showed all
spam - sorry Nicole, Ron, Paulo & Jeff, that I missed your posts.

Since there's already an RFD in the works, it would be easy to use it as
a springboard for a 2nd RFD to modify the charter to allow filtering of
spam and add additional moderators, if that's what you as a group decide
you want to do. I do think it's important, though, if the group is to
survive the spam has got to be filtered out. There is so much spam that
even group regulars have trouble finding the non-spam posts and no
newcomer is going to be interested in wading through it.

If the decision by this group is that you want to keep the group with no
other formal changes, I still feel the spam has got to be cleaned out.
I for one could not bring myself to vote in favor of keeping the group
with this load of spam. The group is apparently being given special
treatment by CleanFeed, because in the past approximately 10 years that
I've been using a well-run news server, I've never seen ANY other group
(moderated or open) that had this huge load of spam. I'm guessing that
the maintainers of CleanFeed and/or the admin of my news server do not
apply spam filtering to moderated groups, since moderated groups do not
normally approve spam for posting. Normally in a moderated group you
see only the very rare occasional spam with a forged approval.

[RonB]

Post by Kathy Morgan
Thanks, Ron, for posting in news.groups.proposals.
With no response from anyone in MWSM, it would be about 10 days from
posting of the RFD to removal of the group. If there were no desire for
the group, why delay formally removing it? Since it appears to me, at
least, that there is still at least some desire for the group and people
who may use it, we can slow things down and give time for a reasoned
decision with input from group regulars. It would be helpful, though,
if more of the supporters would post that support to
news.groups.proposals.

--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere."

Note ... Arguments for and against keeping MWSM are taking
place at news.groups.proposals. Kathy Morgan has kindly
shown us that we should discuss MWSM's fate there (as
well as here). Please consider going to and subscribing to
news.groups.proposals. I think it's important.

Thanks. I don't think some of us yet realize that the fate of MWSM may
hang in the balance if we don't post at news.groups.proposals. Hence the
temporary addition to my signature.

[RonB]

Post by Kathy Morgan
Since there's already an RFD in the works, it would be easy to use it as
a springboard for a 2nd RFD to modify the charter to allow filtering of
spam and add additional moderators, if that's what you as a group decide
you want to do. I do think it's important, though, if the group is to
survive the spam has got to be filtered out. There is so much spam that
even group regulars have trouble finding the non-spam posts and no
newcomer is going to be interested in wading through it.
If the decision by this group is that you want to keep the group with no
other formal changes, I still feel the spam has got to be cleaned out. I
for one could not bring myself to vote in favor of keeping the group
with this load of spam. The group is apparently being given special
treatment by CleanFeed, because in the past approximately 10 years that
I've been using a well-run news server, I've never seen ANY other group
(moderated or open) that had this huge load of spam. I'm guessing that
the maintainers of CleanFeed and/or the admin of my news server do not
apply spam filtering to moderated groups, since moderated groups do not
normally approve spam for posting. Normally in a moderated group you
see only the very rare occasional spam with a forged approval.

All sounds good to me. I think some here think that MWSM will remain now
that a few of us have expressed the desire to keep it. I don't think they
quite realize there are some requirements (and the necessary show of
support) for keeping it. Also a "vote" for changing the charter seems to
be necessary.

[Kathy Morgan]

[Multiposted to MWSM and NGP]

Post by RonB
I think some here think that MWSM will remain now
that a few of us have expressed the desire to keep it. I don't think they
quite realize there are some requirements (and the necessary show of
support) for keeping it.

The support needs to be posted to news.groups.proposals. The only
people who get to vote on the proposal to remove the group are the
members of the Big 8 Management Board (B8MB). It's possible that I'm
the only one who has subscribed to MWSM; the others are unlikely to wade
through the spam to see the discussion.

Post by RonB
Also a "vote" for changing the charter seems to
be necessary.

No. As Adam said in ngp, the moderator owns the group and there is a
presumption that a moderator will enforce the topicality and make
efforts to prevent the spam. I (and probably the other members of the
B8MB) would simply want some assurance that the moderator(s) intended to
address the spam issue.

This could be done by switching to hand moderating (making a decision on
each and every submission), or by employing effective spam filtering
before passing the submissions to the moderation software or some
combination of both. (I can't speak for certain for him, but I feel
confident that Paul Schleck would be willing to help set that up. He
has done it for three of the groups that I currently help to moderate,
along with a number of others. Paul has been a moderator and Usenet
volunteer for a very long time, and is currently also a member of the
B8MB.)

The RFD currently on the table is to remove the group. It was initiated
because the current moderator felt there was no desire for the group and
that everyone had moved to FaceBook. It appears to me that he may have
been mistaken, but I'm not sure that there are enough people interested
in keeping and posting to MWSM to keep it as a viable group. Clearly
there are some people who still prefer to use MWSM. Are there enough to
make it viable? Are they sufficiently motivated to be willing to post to
news.groups.proposals and follow the discussion there?

[RonB]

Are there enough to make it viable? Are they sufficiently motivated to
be willing to post to news.groups.proposals and follow the discussion
there?

I think a lot of them are like me -- we really didn't understand the
procedure. Thanks for explaining it. Hopefully those of us who want to
keep MWSM will post at news.groups.proposals.

[Jeff Newman]

Post by Kathy Morgan
[Multiposted to MWSM and NGP]
The support needs to be posted to news.groups.proposals. The only
people who get to vote on the proposal to remove the group are the
members of the Big 8 Management Board (B8MB). It's possible that I'm
the only one who has subscribed to MWSM; the others are unlikely to wade
through the spam to see the discussion.
... I (and probably the other members of the
B8MB) would simply want some assurance that the moderator(s) intended to
address the spam issue.
This could be done by switching to hand moderating (making a decision on
each and every submission), or by employing effective spam filtering
before passing the submissions to the moderation software or some
combination of both. (I can't speak for certain for him, but I feel
confident that Paul Schleck would be willing to help set that up. He
has done it for three of the groups that I currently help to moderate,
along with a number of others. Paul has been a moderator and Usenet
volunteer for a very long time, and is currently also a member of the
B8MB.)
The RFD currently on the table is to remove the group. It was initiated
because the current moderator felt there was no desire for the group and
that everyone had moved to FaceBook. It appears to me that he may have
been mistaken, but I'm not sure that there are enough people interested
in keeping and posting to MWSM to keep it as a viable group. Clearly
there are some people who still prefer to use MWSM. Are there enough to
make it viable? Are they sufficiently motivated to be willing to post to
news.groups.proposals and follow the discussion there?

Well, after making this post, I will subscribe to and post to news.groups.proposals.

I strongly feel that IF and AFTER the Spam were removed, that I and others could beat the internet bushes to let those interesting in screenwriting know about this forum. The old mws, before the flamers and trolls drove out most of the good folks, was a wonderful combination of newbie screenwriters, intermediate- and advanced-level amateurs, and professionals. There are plenty of such who read the dozens of screenwriting-related blogs and the several message boards that would be interested in giving mwsm
a chance -- but not, of course, if they come to the link and see all that spam, or a board dominated by flamers.

I think we naively and over-optimistically erred, when breaking off from mws which had grown toxic and nutty, by pretty much just blocking one abusive individual. But others took his place, and then the deluge of spammers. And thus, folks who were checking this out, or ones who used to post who came back for a quick look-see, took that one quick look and fled in horror.

But a cleaned up group would likely be attractive to many. I and others will post about the group (if it survives and if the spam is gone), and I think many will give it a chance, and many of them will stay on.

I would be willing to also create a website with a generic name related to screenwriting that tells about the site, and posts a link not just to the (new-improved) group, but some links to archived discussions that were fascinating, to give folks a taste of what this could be. Because that would show up on Google (and other Search Engine) searches, and would be one more way that people would find the group.

I'm guessing some of the dozens of screenwriting blog writers might decide to post here now and then, both to add to the discussions and also to cross-plug their blogs (and nothing wrong with that -- some of them are quite good). And thus, a fair number of their readers would follow.

We could well wind up with several hundred who at least read/follow the group, and many dozens who contribute posts. And that might be a low estimate. There are just as many folks interested in, and trying to become, screenwriters as ever. They just need a clean, decent place to get together.

Well, I'll copy/paste this to news.groups.proposals.

Any other folks who read this and want an improved (spam/flamer-free) version of the group to survive: subscribe and post to:

news.groups.proposals

so that the folks know that there is interest.

And while the current interest level may be small, once the group is cleaned up, then we can get the word out, and folks who check it out will find a nice community.

Thanks for the info,

Jeff Newman