Discussion:
Why do Hollywood people hate Christians?
(too old to reply)
E***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-25 10:07:48 UTC
Permalink
Why do Hollywood people constantly ridicule Christians' belief in the
supernatural?

I see Mr. Bill Mahr out thumping his tub about some Christians'
delusional belief in the supernatural.

Of course, he often makes the same point about Muslims.

But he doesn't seem to say the same thing about Jews, who believe in
the same Old Testament stuff as the fundamentalist Christians and
Muslims.

I've heard Mr. Mahr say it has to do with Christians "ramming their
religion down people's throats." In fact, there are a lot of Jews in
the Israeli government who believe they are "God's chosen people" and
that they have been granted by God (yes, the same supernatural god
that the Christians and Muslims believe in) some land in the Middle
East. To that end, they are slowly, deliberately trying to turn
non-Jews who have lived on the land for centuries (the Palestinians)
into refugees. Were he a logical person, Mr. Mahr would say this is
an example of the religious delusion motivating a malevolent
large-scale crime. Yet, not a peep out of him about it.

It is that kind of contradiction that leads me to think Mr. Mahr and
his colleagues in Hollywood are upset about Christians for some other
reason. They say all sorts of snarky, malicious things about Mel
Gibson's fundamentalist Christianity, but Gibson says something
negative about Jews and he is criminalized? If his anti-Jewish words
are improper, aren't their anti-Christian words just as improper? Or
are they both, as I suspect, within the bounds of free speech?

I see all sorts of Hollywood movies making Christians, especially
Christians from the American Midwest, out to be every kind of villain
from homophobes to white supremacists to terrorists. You don't see a
whole lot of Hollywood movies making fundamentalist Jews, nor
Scientologists, out to be villains.

When I have encountered Hollywood types in the work arena, they
actually would ask me if I was Jewish (a rather intrusive question),
ask me if I was Christian (equally intrusive), and then whisper to me
that they had to look out for right-wing Christians, as if RWCs might
be working undercover as saboteurs. Bear in mind, I only did contract
computer programming. I had nothing whatsoever to do with the hoi
polloi of Hollywood, the creative product, the politics or or the
money. Yes, they are that paranoid. Delusionally paranoid, if you
ask me.

I'm not saying Mr. Mahr or anyone else should go out and verbally
attack Jews. I'm saying, if the anti-christian faction is so morally
and intellectually outraged at Christians' belief in the supernatural,
then for the sake of consistency they should also be outraged by other
religions that believe in the supernatural. Or they should not be
outraged by either. But if consistency is the hobgoblin of little
minds, then inconsistency is the red flag of hypocrites, and where you
have a hypocrite you don't have a true opinion, you have a hidden
motive disguised as an opinion.

Now, what is the hidden motive?

- Ibn Kahldun, an atheist
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-25 10:49:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
Why do Hollywood people constantly ridicule Christians' belief in the
supernatural?  
I see Mr. Bill Mahr out thumping his tub about some Christians'
delusional belief in the supernatural.  
Of course, he often makes the same point about Muslims.
But he doesn't seem to say the same thing about Jews, who believe in
the same Old Testament stuff as the fundamentalist Christians and
Muslims.  
Actually, it seems you're not overly familiar with Mr. Mahr's act, but
still...
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I've heard Mr. Mahr say it has to do with Christians "ramming their
religion down people's throats."  
And, there you have it. Christianity and Islam are both evangelical
belief systems. That means they specifically seek to convince people
who don't share their beliefs, to start believing and join up.
Judaism is very much not an evangelical belief system. No one's out
there trying to get people to become Jews; quite the contrary. They
think of themselves as God's Chosen People and are generally happy to
keep their beliefs to themselves.

Add to that, that a lot of Judaism, as practiced in the West
especially, isn't especially religious. A lot of people who identify
themselves as Jews don't go to temple and don't keep kosher and don't
speak Hebrew beyond a little bit they learned phonetically - enough to
get them through a bar- or bat-mitzvah. Adam Sandler's The Hanukkah
Song points up that, in H'wood in particular, a lot of Jewish people
are so private in their religion/culture that you'd never guess they
were Jewish at all, unless someone told you.

That's the difference between ramming your religion down someone's
throat, and not.
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I see all sorts of Hollywood movies making Christians, especially
Christians from the American Midwest, out to be every kind of villain
from homophobes to white supremacists to terrorists.
Villians are the stuff of drama, but if you look closely at the
Christian bible, it's pretty clear about homosexuality - not a lot of
love there. A lot of very religious Christians were able to defend
slavery, too, based on the race of the people being enslaved. The KKK
still describes itself as a fundamentalist Christian organization, and
the Mormons have some pretty interesting things to say about blacks
vs. whites. Are all Christians like that? No, of course not. Most
absolutely aren't. But if you're writing in a modern Western context,
and for the sake of drama you need a villian, you're not likely to
write one who's an Aztec, right? God Is On My Side is one of the most
powerful motivations for a villian, especially if your villian's God
is the kind who tells His followers to convert the non-believers and
to smite the evil-doers.
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
You don't see a
whole lot of Hollywood movies making fundamentalist Jews, nor
Scientologists, out to be villains.
Fundamentalist Jews are an incredibly small population in the US and
tend - as an aspect of both their fundamentalism and their non-
evangelical belief system - to keep to themselves. Scientologists? A
relatively new religion, hokum though it is, but as it's getting a lot
of press lately, expect to see it cropping up more often. It's
already being satirized on TV; villiany can't be too far behind.
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I'm not saying Mr. Mahr or anyone else should go out and verbally
attack Jews.  
One of my favorites of Mahr's jokes, describing his upbringing - you
know he's half Jewish and half Catholic, but currently practices
neither, right? - is his description of his first confession. "Bless
me, Father, for I have sinned... I believe you've already met my
attorney, Mr. Cohen?"
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I'm saying, if the anti-christian faction is so morally
and intellectually outraged at Christians' belief in the supernatural,
then for the sake of consistency they should also be outraged by other
religions that believe in the supernatural.  Or they should not be
outraged by either.  But if consistency is the hobgoblin of little
minds, then inconsistency is the red flag of hypocrites, and where you
have a hypocrite you don't have a true opinion, you have a hidden
motive disguised as an opinion.  
Now, what is the hidden motive?
On what basis do you reject the stated objection - the evangelical
nature of the faiths in question? And have you met our old friend the
Jaegermeister?

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-25 11:50:54 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:49:40 +0000 (UTC), "Steven J. Weller"
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
Why do Hollywood people constantly ridicule Christians' belief in the
supernatural?  
I see Mr. Bill Mahr out thumping his tub about some Christians'
delusional belief in the supernatural.  
Of course, he often makes the same point about Muslims.
But he doesn't seem to say the same thing about Jews, who believe in
the same Old Testament stuff as the fundamentalist Christians and
Muslims.  
Actually, it seems you're not overly familiar with Mr. Mahr's act, but
still...
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I've heard Mr. Mahr say it has to do with Christians "ramming their
religion down people's throats."  
And, there you have it. Christianity and Islam are both evangelical
belief systems. That means they specifically seek to convince people
who don't share their beliefs, to start believing and join up.
Judaism is very much not an evangelical belief system. No one's out
there trying to get people to become Jews; quite the contrary. They
think of themselves as God's Chosen People and are generally happy to
keep their beliefs to themselves.
Add to that, that a lot of Judaism, as practiced in the West
especially, isn't especially religious. A lot of people who identify
themselves as Jews don't go to temple and don't keep kosher and don't
speak Hebrew beyond a little bit they learned phonetically - enough to
get them through a bar- or bat-mitzvah. Adam Sandler's The Hanukkah
Song points up that, in H'wood in particular, a lot of Jewish people
are so private in their religion/culture that you'd never guess they
were Jewish at all, unless someone told you.
That's the difference between ramming your religion down someone's
throat, and not.
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I see all sorts of Hollywood movies making Christians, especially
Christians from the American Midwest, out to be every kind of villain
from homophobes to white supremacists to terrorists.
Villians are the stuff of drama, but if you look closely at the
Christian bible, it's pretty clear about homosexuality - not a lot of
love there. A lot of very religious Christians were able to defend
slavery, too, based on the race of the people being enslaved. The KKK
still describes itself as a fundamentalist Christian organization, and
the Mormons have some pretty interesting things to say about blacks
vs. whites. Are all Christians like that? No, of course not. Most
absolutely aren't. But if you're writing in a modern Western context,
and for the sake of drama you need a villian, you're not likely to
write one who's an Aztec, right? God Is On My Side is one of the most
powerful motivations for a villian, especially if your villian's God
is the kind who tells His followers to convert the non-believers and
to smite the evil-doers.
Strange that you excised the part about the Israeli government. Those
are indeed fundamentalists who, in the name of their religion, are
fomenting conflict in the Middle East, oppressing the Palestinians and
conducting espionage against the United States. So why no Israeli
Jewish fundamentalist villains?
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
You don't see a
whole lot of Hollywood movies making fundamentalist Jews, nor
Scientologists, out to be villains.
Fundamentalist Jews are an incredibly small population in the US and
tend - as an aspect of both their fundamentalism and their non-
evangelical belief system - to keep to themselves. Scientologists? A
relatively new religion, hokum though it is, but as it's getting a lot
of press lately, expect to see it cropping up more often. It's
already being satirized on TV; villiany can't be too far behind.
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I'm not saying Mr. Mahr or anyone else should go out and verbally
attack Jews.  
One of my favorites of Mahr's jokes, describing his upbringing - you
know he's half Jewish and half Catholic, but currently practices
neither, right? - is his description of his first confession. "Bless
me, Father, for I have sinned... I believe you've already met my
attorney, Mr. Cohen?"
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
I'm saying, if the anti-christian faction is so morally
and intellectually outraged at Christians' belief in the supernatural,
then for the sake of consistency they should also be outraged by other
religions that believe in the supernatural.  Or they should not be
outraged by either.  But if consistency is the hobgoblin of little
minds, then inconsistency is the red flag of hypocrites, and where you
have a hypocrite you don't have a true opinion, you have a hidden
motive disguised as an opinion.  
Now, what is the hidden motive?
On what basis do you reject the stated objection - the evangelical
nature of the faiths in question?
First, on the basis that, while it is mostly Christianity that is
being ridiculed, there are many religions which are evangelical. Very
few, in fact, are not. Mr. Mahr seems to me to be an evangelical
atheist, which would seem to me to be offensive under the same
criteria that makes evangelical Christians offensive.

Second, on the basis that it is not the evangelical aspect of the
religions that is being attacked and ridiculed. It is the beliefs and
believers that are being ridiculed.

- Ibn Kahldun
(An Atheist)
Sammyo
2008-08-25 19:55:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
Strange that you excised the part about the Israeli government. Those
are indeed fundamentalists who, in the name of their religion, are
fomenting conflict in the Middle East, oppressing the Palestinians and
conducting espionage against the United States. So why no Israeli
Jewish fundamentalist villains?
- Ibn Kahldun
Mr Ibn KahTroll, lift up your shirt.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
(An Atheist)
Yeah, sure dude.

So to the point, why doesn't Hollywood poke fun at Kurds or
Armenians? Simple, few would get the joke, fewer would buy tickets.
Percentage wise, Jews and Israelies probably get lampooned more than
any minority. Did you miss "You Don't Mess with the Zohan"? Don't you
know that Blofeld and Doc No were secretly jewish villans?

Foo, take your pathetic trolls to alt.hate.bork.bork.bork
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-26 03:17:28 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:55:35 +0000 (UTC), Sammyo
Post by Sammyo
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
Strange that you excised the part about the Israeli government. Those
are indeed fundamentalists who, in the name of their religion, are
fomenting conflict in the Middle East, oppressing the Palestinians and
conducting espionage against the United States. So why no Israeli
Jewish fundamentalist villains?
- Ibn Kahldun
Mr Ibn KahTroll, lift up your shirt.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
(An Atheist)
Yeah, sure dude.
You're so paranoid you think the Christians are devious enough to
pretend to be atheists?
Post by Sammyo
So to the point, why doesn't Hollywood poke fun at Kurds or
Armenians? Simple, few would get the joke, fewer would buy tickets.
Percentage wise, Jews and Israelies probably get lampooned more than
any minority. Did you miss "You Don't Mess with the Zohan"? Don't you
know that Blofeld and Doc No were secretly jewish villans?
They don't get lampooned for their religious beliefs. Moses parts the
Red Sea! LOL!
Post by Sammyo
Foo, take your pathetic trolls to alt.hate.bork.bork.bork
Foo, take your pathetic trolls about Republicans and Christians to
alt.hate.bork.bork.bork.
Remysun
2008-08-26 03:56:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
Foo, take your pathetic trolls about Republicans and Christians to
alt.hate.bork.bork.bork.-
We were here first. You go.
w***@aol.com
2008-08-26 14:07:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:55:35 +0000 (UTC), Sammyo
Post by Sammyo
Strange that you excised the part about the Israeli government.  Those
are indeed fundamentalists who, in the name of their religion, are
fomenting conflict in the Middle East, oppressing the Palestinians and
conducting espionage against the United States.  So why no Israeli
Jewish fundamentalist villains?
- Ibn Kahldun
Mr Ibn KahTroll, lift up your shirt.
(An Atheist)
Yeah, sure dude.
You're so paranoid you think the Christians are devious enough to
pretend to be atheists?  
Post by Sammyo
So to the point, why doesn't Hollywood poke fun at Kurds or
Armenians?  Simple, few would get the joke, fewer would buy tickets.
Percentage wise, Jews and Israelies probably get lampooned more than
any minority. Did you miss "You Don't Mess with the Zohan"? Don't you
know that Blofeld and Doc No were secretly jewish villans?
They don't get lampooned for their religious beliefs.  Moses parts the
Red Sea!  LOL!  
Post by Sammyo
Foo, take your pathetic trolls to alt.hate.bork.bork.bork
Foo, take your pathetic trolls about Republicans and Christians to
alt.hate.bork.bork.bork.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hey morons,

I realize you're having fun railing against things you know absolutely
nothing about, but in vain hopes of stopping your whining, I present
an excerpt from the Variety review of Religulous, Bill Maher's new
film:

"Latter section turns to Judaism and Islam, of which Maher is an equal-
opportunity critic. Jewish laws around the Sabbath come in for some
heavy ribbing, while the current wave of violence by wings of Islam is
faced head-on. Chats with Muslims, from rapper Propa-Gandhi to
scholars at the holiest Jerusalem sites, expose an internal debate
raging among contemporary Muslims.

While he examines the Big Three religions of the West at length
(Eastern faiths get a pass in “Religulous”), Maher even gets in some
choice stabs at Mormonism (whose tenets may astound those not in the
know) and Scientology."

In other words, everything you've claimed here about Mr. "Mahr" is
about as accurate as your spelling of his name.

So go find some other forum to pollute, instead of trolling here.
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-28 08:06:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by w***@aol.com
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
On Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:55:35 +0000 (UTC), Sammyo
Post by Sammyo
Strange that you excised the part about the Israeli government.  Those
are indeed fundamentalists who, in the name of their religion, are
fomenting conflict in the Middle East, oppressing the Palestinians and
conducting espionage against the United States.  So why no Israeli
Jewish fundamentalist villains?
- Ibn Kahldun
Mr Ibn KahTroll, lift up your shirt.
(An Atheist)
Yeah, sure dude.
You're so paranoid you think the Christians are devious enough to
pretend to be atheists?  
Post by Sammyo
So to the point, why doesn't Hollywood poke fun at Kurds or
Armenians?  Simple, few would get the joke, fewer would buy tickets.
Percentage wise, Jews and Israelies probably get lampooned more than
any minority. Did you miss "You Don't Mess with the Zohan"? Don't you
know that Blofeld and Doc No were secretly jewish villans?
They don't get lampooned for their religious beliefs.  Moses parts the
Red Sea!  LOL!  
Post by Sammyo
Foo, take your pathetic trolls to alt.hate.bork.bork.bork
Foo, take your pathetic trolls about Republicans and Christians to
alt.hate.bork.bork.bork.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
Hey morons,
I realize you're having fun railing against things you know absolutely
nothing about, but in vain hopes of stopping your whining, I present
an excerpt from the Variety review of Religulous, Bill Maher's new
"Latter section turns to Judaism and Islam, of which Maher is an equal-
opportunity critic. Jewish laws around the Sabbath come in for some
heavy ribbing, while the current wave of violence by wings of Islam is
faced head-on. Chats with Muslims, from rapper Propa-Gandhi to
scholars at the holiest Jerusalem sites, expose an internal debate
raging among contemporary Muslims.
While he examines the Big Three religions of the West at length
(Eastern faiths get a pass in “Religulous”), Maher even gets in some
choice stabs at Mormonism (whose tenets may astound those not in the
know) and Scientology."
In other words, everything you've claimed here about Mr. "Mahr" is
about as accurate as your spelling of his name.
So go find some other forum to pollute, instead of trolling here.
This from someone who hasn't even seen the movie? I think I'll
reserve judgement until I've seen the movie as to whether Mr. Maher is
really an EQUAL opportunity critic or that's just a turn of phrase. Mr
Maher's comments on TV, however, are usually directed at Christians.
nomad
2008-08-25 14:32:42 UTC
Permalink
Why do Christians persecute Jews? After all, Christians worship a Jew as
their God. The bible says that Jews are "God's chosen people". Why don't
Christians create their own religion instead of hijacking the religion of
the Jews? Jews have been a persecuted minority for their entire existence.
Weak, pathetic losers like Mel Gibson use vulnerable, innocent people
as scapegoats for their own inability to cope with life.
Skipper
2008-08-25 14:59:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by nomad
Why do Christians persecute Jews? After all, Christians worship a Jew as
their God. The bible says that Jews are "God's chosen people". Why don't
Christians create their own religion instead of hijacking the religion of
the Jews? Jews have been a persecuted minority for their entire existence.
Weak, pathetic losers like Mel Gibson use vulnerable, innocent people
as scapegoats for their own inability to cope with life.
Something tells me Mel Gibson is doing a bit better coping at life than
someone posting from gonad.net.
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-25 15:05:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by nomad
Why do Christians persecute Jews? After all, Christians worship a Jew as
their God. The bible says that Jews are "God's chosen people". Why don't
Christians create their own religion instead of hijacking the religion of
the Jews? Jews have been a persecuted minority for their entire existence.
Weak, pathetic losers like Mel Gibson use vulnerable, innocent people
as scapegoats for their own inability to cope with life.
I asked a Jewish friend about being God's chosen people, and he said
(stock answer) "Next time, choose someone else."
Remysun
2008-08-25 16:35:07 UTC
Permalink
Nobody hates anyone around here. Stop throwing the word around like
some three year old on vegetables.

The consequences of real hate are far more damning. For the victim and
the perpetrator.
Skipper
2008-08-25 18:14:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Nobody hates anyone around here. Stop throwing the word around like
some three year old on vegetables.
The consequences of real hate are far more damning. For the victim and
the perpetrator.
Well darn. I was thunkin real hard on the problem and about to say that
it was the MGM lion that reminded them of their past lives as
Christians when the Romans threw them to the beasts. And where else did
they ever have orgies except Rome and Hollywood?

But never mind now.
wcmartell
2008-08-25 22:38:12 UTC
Permalink
How did Bill Mahr become "Hollywood"?

He's a stand up comedian.

- Bill
Schlockhack
2008-08-25 23:58:05 UTC
Permalink
So why no Israeli Jewish fundamentalist villains?
What kind of action would a ficitious fundamentalist Jew, acting from
his religious beliefs, perform that would make him a Hollywood
villain? Build a settlement in the West Bank? We're talking about
American-made tv shows and movies aimed at an American audience.

The kind of Hollywood liberals you mention look down on fundamentalist
Christians in a general way, as being unevolved red state peasants.
But. In terms of concrete activities, it really boils down to two
issues: homophobia and abortion. For all I know Orthodox Jews might
hold anti-gay and anti-abortion sentiments, but if so they keep it to
themselves, they don't blockade abortion clinics or stump for anti-gay
legislation. So how would a fundamentalist Jew be portrayed as a
villain by Hollywood liberals?
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 00:22:30 UTC
Permalink
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary. Think
Kool-Aid. No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
RonB
2008-08-26 00:52:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary.  Think
Kool-Aid.  No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"

It's kind of like saying that a bag lady screaming "The world is ending" is
somehow "scary."
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
Remysun
2008-08-26 00:59:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonB
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"
The fundamentalist trapping you in a restaurant booth because he knows
you're too nice to cause a scene, believing that he's saving your
soul-- fucking scary.
RonB
2008-08-26 02:48:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by RonB
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"
The fundamentalist trapping you in a restaurant booth because he knows
you're too nice to cause a scene, believing that he's saving your
soul-- fucking scary.
Annoying. But scary? Are you guys really that timid?
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
Remysun
2008-08-26 03:48:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonB
Annoying. But scary? Are you guys really that timid?
This coming from the guy who was sidelined by a bumblebee.
Paulo Joe Jingy
2008-08-26 05:17:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by RonB
Annoying. But scary? Are you guys really that timid?
This coming from the guy who was sidelined by a bumblebee.
A wasp and a busted up, swollen knee the size of a basketball. (Yeah, I
saw it. Disgusting.)

How does that equate, exactly, to a "scary" guy "believing he's saving
your soul"? Does a "scary" guy "believing he's saving your soul" bust
up knees by talking to you?

Never happened to me yet.

Maybe they didn't build people quite as wussified in my day.

Try this next time.

"Not interested. Good bye." (Then walk away.) Works for me.

Or you can go in the perpetual victim direction...

Read my new book: "The Horror -- The Day A Mormon Missionary Came To My
Door!" The trauma haunts me still. HE TRIED TO HAND ME A PAMPHLET!!!
After ten years of therapy I'm getting better. I just now started
putting the shattered pieces of my battered life back together. But it
still hurts to talk about it. WHY did I open the door!!!

Your choice.

But I'm going with the, "Not interested. Good bye", option.
Remysun
2008-08-26 06:15:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Maybe they didn't build people quite as wussified in my day.
Not that easy, Paulo. My lab partner set me up, not some fucking
stranger in the street, but a trusted friend. He got four of his
biggest friends, and sat me on the inside of a restaurant booth-- and
then started the Campus Crusade for Guantamano.

Twelve years of Catholic school warned me about how cults brainwash
people, but did squat for arguing back at them on chapter and verse.
They threw that Bush shit about Matthew 12:30, "He who is not with me
is against me" and a whole bunch of other stuff. Sure, some pussy like
Paulo would lip service agreement with them to get the hell out of
there, when the "Sorry, not interested" won't cut it anymore, but I
got principles. I just couldn't quote them chapter and verse that
night.

Anyway, I'm not bitter because I know who I am and what I believe. I
finally ended up reading the Bible, which was good; they made me Pro-
Choice ("render unto Caesar" and I couldn't justify what happened to
me toward any woman who has to make that decision); and I'll always be
Catholic, because it's so easy to quit whenever I want to.

Anyway, seeing how Fundies treat women, you bet it's fucking scary--
unless you want to taunt the conservatives by waving a dildo with your
sphincter.
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-26 07:49:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Maybe they didn't build people quite as wussified in my day.
Not that easy, Paulo. My lab partner set me up, not some fucking
stranger in the street, but a trusted friend. He got four of his
biggest friends, and sat me on the inside of a restaurant booth-- and
then started the Campus Crusade for Guantamano.
Twelve years of Catholic school warned me about how cults brainwash
people, but did squat for arguing back at them on chapter and verse.
They threw that Bush shit about Matthew 12:30, "He who is not with me
is against me" and a whole bunch of other stuff. Sure, some pussy like
Paulo would lip service agreement with them to get the hell out of
there, when the  "Sorry, not interested" won't cut it anymore, but I
got principles. I just couldn't quote them chapter and verse that
night.
See, this is where a strong background in Customer Service is a (you
should pardon the expression) godsend. Trying to reason with someone
who's not reasonable is a fool's errand but controlling the direction
of the conversation - and being willing to get others involved - is a
skillset that can serve you well in a situation like that.

"Are you ready, right now, to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your
personal savior?"

"I'm not going to do anything until you let me out of this booth."

"We just want to tell you the Good News about Jesus Christ!"

"If you don't let me out of this booth I'm going to start making
noise, and get security over here."

"Why do you feel like you're so unhappy in your life? Have you
thought about it?"

"If you don't let me out of this booth, I'm calling security, and I'm
going to press charges."

"What? What are you talking about, 'pressing charges?' We just want
to share the Good News of Christ's sacrifi-"

"SECURITY! Can I get a little help over here? These guys are keeping
me trapped in this booth! I want to call the police but they're
holding me here against my will!"

You'd be amazed at how quickly they'll let you up and out, once
everybody in the room is starring at them. And once you're out and
they've shut up (and the security guard is walking up to you all) you
have a terrific opportunity to tell them that if the news they have is
so good, it shouldn't require forcing people to hear it through
intimidation.

THEN you leave.

--
Life Continues, Despitre
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
Remysun
2008-08-26 14:42:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
You'd be amazed at how quickly they'll let you up and out, once
everybody in the room is starring at them.
Well, you gotta be the type of person who would do that. Cults choose
their victims.
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 14:59:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Well, you gotta be the type of person who would do that. Cults choose
their victims.
And the victims choose their cult - I don't know of any who kidnap. I
explored a few back in the day, and members came willingly. Me, I was
just looking - and no coercion. But I did take a silly on-line IQ
test that got me on a Scientology mailing list - they were tough to
shake, but they did take No for an answer. Eventually.
RonB
2008-08-26 16:48:33 UTC
Permalink
And the victims choose their cult - I don't know of any who kidnap.  I
explored a few back in the day, and members came willingly.  Me, I was
just looking - and no coercion.   But I did take a silly on-line IQ
test that got me on a Scientology mailing list - they were tough to
shake, but they did take No for an answer.  Eventually.
My Grandmother opened the door once and some goomball tapped her on the
forehead and said, "You are now baptized in the Lord, go forth and do
likewise." He then turned away and walked off.

When I was in college I worked for a magazine distributor. It was summer, so
the garage door was opened to the side street. About 8 "moonies" walked in
and tried to hand us pamphlets and asked for money. When we told them we
weren't interested and would they please leave, they started singing
because "they were being persecuted for the Lord."

It used to be that "moonies" descended like locusts on airports -- I guess
that's over now with the security measures currently in place.
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
Paulo Joe Jingy
2008-08-26 16:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonB
It used to be that "moonies" descended like locusts on airports -- I guess
that's over now with the security measures currently in place.
The younger guys here probably don't get it in "Airplane" when the
pilot starts beating the shit out of the moonies. It was everybody's
dream back then.
Remysun
2008-08-26 17:14:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
The younger guys here probably don't get it in "Airplane" when the
pilot starts beating the shit out of the moonies.  It was everybody's
dream back then.
Who's under 30 around here?
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 17:20:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
The younger guys here probably don't get it in "Airplane" when the
pilot starts beating the shit out of the moonies.  It was everybody's
dream back then.
Who's under 30 around here?
Well, I've been under 30s - does that count?
Schlockhack
2008-08-27 01:19:33 UTC
Permalink
It used to be that "moonies" descended like locusts on airports -- I guess that's over now with the security measures currently in place.
A brilliant moment in The Simpsons. Abu and Homer take a plane to
India and walk through the airport. There in a corner is a group of
Americans singing "If you believe in Jesus clap your hands." Abu says
to Homer in exasperation, "Oh these airport Christians!"
Paulo Joe Jingy
2008-08-26 13:58:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Maybe they didn't build people quite as wussified in my day.
Not that easy, Paulo. My lab partner set me up, not some fucking
stranger in the street, but a trusted friend. He got four of his
biggest friends, and sat me on the inside of a restaurant booth-- and
then started the Campus Crusade for Guantamano.
This story sure is "evolving". Now we've gone from a bag lady
"talkin' salvation", to a gang four of the biggest mofos that ever
walked the street terrorizing you. Soon you'll be kidnapped, held for
years against your will and forcefully indoctrinated.

The point is -- the situation (as originally stated) -- a bag lady
going on and on about salvation, is not scary by any stretch of the
imagination.

Now if your story turns out to be a gang of murderers, with one
licking the fresh blood off his machete and telling you "You're going
to hell -- NOW!!!"....well that's a little different, isn't it?

Sorry to pick on you. But I've heard "fundies" described as
terrorists for "accosting" people on the street and TALKING to them,
one too many times. Annoying as hell? Yes. Scary? Nah.

Believe me, they can be fun to insult (and I've often done that), but
scary for talking to you?... I don't buy it.

In fact if it happens again, think of it as a character study and
feature them in your next script. Then when they make a movie from
that script, someone will come up on this newsgroup and bitch about
how "Hollywood Hates Christians".

And the circle is complete.
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 14:13:06 UTC
Permalink
What was scary about my fundy friend - most fundies mind their own
business, I have no bone to pick - was how cold he was about the going-
to-Hell part. All I could think - this guy could be a sniper. And
we were in the middle of making his TV thing!
I***@spammenotsir.com
2008-08-28 08:08:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
What was scary about my fundy friend - most fundies mind their own
business, I have no bone to pick - was how cold he was about the going-
to-Hell part. All I could think - this guy could be a sniper. And
we were in the middle of making his TV thing!
Did you fuck this fundie like you have everyone else in your life
apparently?
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-28 08:15:39 UTC
Permalink
Post by I***@spammenotsir.com
Post by m***@rcn.com
What was scary about my fundy friend - most fundies mind their own
business, I have no bone to pick - was how cold he was about the going-
to-Hell part.   All I could think - this guy could be a sniper.  And
we were in the middle of making his TV thing!
Did you fuck this fundie like you have everyone else in your life
apparently?  
...and now we have a name to go with the handle.

Some things never change.

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-28 08:17:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by I***@spammenotsir.com
Post by m***@rcn.com
What was scary about my fundy friend - most fundies mind their own
business, I have no bone to pick - was how cold he was about the going-
to-Hell part.   All I could think - this guy could be a sniper.  And
we were in the middle of making his TV thing!
Did you fuck this fundie like you have everyone else in your life
apparently?  
Um, no - I was just helping with his pilot - where the hell did that
come from?
MC
2008-08-28 11:08:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
Post by I***@spammenotsir.com
Did you fuck this fundie like you have everyone else in your life
apparently?  
Um, no - I was just helping with his pilot - where the hell did that
come from?
New Jersey would be my guess
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
Sammyo
2008-08-28 18:26:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
Post by I***@spammenotsir.com
Post by m***@rcn.com
What was scary about my fundy friend - most fundies mind their own
business, I have no bone to pick - was how cold he was about the going-
to-Hell part. All I could think - this guy could be a sniper. And
we were in the middle of making his TV thing!
Did you fuck this fundie like you have everyone else in your life
apparently?
Um, no - I was just helping with his pilot - where the hell did that
come from?
It comes directly from the Troll Handbook.

Hey Ibn-troll-dude, go holler upstairs at yer mom that your 'friends'
won't play by your rules.

Remysun
2008-08-26 15:57:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
The point is -- the situation (as originally stated) -- a bag lady
going on and on about salvation, is not scary by any stretch of the
imagination.
Aw, yes, we're talking about different fundies here. And even
different Remys. The last ambush was the funeral of a co-worker
several years ago. "He would want you to be saved!" Uh, he's being
buried with a tacky belt buckle. He saves the darndest things.
Paulo Joe Jingy
2008-08-26 17:32:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
The point is -- the situation (as originally stated) -- a bag lady
going on and on about salvation, is not scary by any stretch of the
imagination.
Aw, yes, we're talking about different fundies here. And even
different Remys. The last ambush was the funeral of a co-worker
several years ago. "He would want you to be saved!" Uh, he's being
buried with a tacky belt buckle. He saves the darndest things.
Have you considered out-weirding them?

Things that have worked for me:

When I approached in a public place: Ask him/it/her/them to back up
and leave a space open. After you have a space look up into the empty
sky and say: "You can land now -- you were saying?"

(Used more than once.) "RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE
WAY... I SAID RAAAAAAISE YOUR HAND IF WANNA KNOOOOOOOW THE WAY.
<scream louder> I SAAAAID RAISE YOUR HAAAAAAAND IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE
WAAAAAAAAAY!!!! THE WAY TO THE BATHROOM!"

Works at home:

Just tell them you're a Catholic. Scares the shit out of fundies.
Usually they hiss and run away. (Drives Mormons and Jehovah's
Witnesses away too.) If you get a bolder one ask him to pray the
Rosary with you. That'll do it.

(Haven't tried yet -- should work.) "Wow, you're a First Saturday of
Every Third Month Baptist? I haven't got one of them yet! Want to
see my collection of Jehovah's Witnesses in the basement? No? What
about the Mormon missionaries in the attic -- they're fresher. OK,
but before you leave, could you help me get my chainsaw out of the
shed? Hey -- don't you want to talk to me?"
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-26 21:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Have you considered out-weirding them?
When I approached in a public place:  Ask him/it/her/them to back up
and leave a space open.  After you have a space look up into the empty
sky and say: "You can land now -- you were saying?"
(Used more than once.)  "RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE
WAY... I SAID RAAAAAAISE YOUR HAND IF WANNA KNOOOOOOOW THE WAY.
<scream louder> I SAAAAID RAISE YOUR HAAAAAAAND IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE
WAAAAAAAAAY!!!!  THE WAY TO THE BATHROOM!"
Just tell them you're a Catholic.  Scares the shit out of fundies.
Usually they hiss and run away. (Drives Mormons and Jehovah's
Witnesses away too.)  If you get a bolder one ask him to pray the
Rosary with you.  That'll do it.
(Haven't tried yet -- should work.)  "Wow, you're a First Saturday of
Every Third Month Baptist?  I haven't got one of them yet!  Want to
see my collection of Jehovah's Witnesses in the basement?  No?  What
about the Mormon missionaries in the attic -- they're fresher.  OK,
but before you leave, could you help me get my chainsaw out of the
shed?  Hey -- don't you want to talk to me?"
I've told this story here before, but a friend of mine back in college
used to seduce every missionary that came to her door. Every. Single.
One. Sometimes they left crying, for having so betrayed their faith.

She was fun.

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
Skipper
2008-08-26 23:34:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Have you considered out-weirding them?
When I approached in a public place:  Ask him/it/her/them to back up
and leave a space open.  After you have a space look up into the empty
sky and say: "You can land now -- you were saying?"
(Used more than once.)  "RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE
WAY... I SAID RAAAAAAISE YOUR HAND IF WANNA KNOOOOOOOW THE WAY.
<scream louder> I SAAAAID RAISE YOUR HAAAAAAAND IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE
WAAAAAAAAAY!!!!  THE WAY TO THE BATHROOM!"
Just tell them you're a Catholic.  Scares the shit out of fundies.
Usually they hiss and run away. (Drives Mormons and Jehovah's
Witnesses away too.)  If you get a bolder one ask him to pray the
Rosary with you.  That'll do it.
(Haven't tried yet -- should work.)  "Wow, you're a First Saturday of
Every Third Month Baptist?  I haven't got one of them yet!  Want to
see my collection of Jehovah's Witnesses in the basement?  No?  What
about the Mormon missionaries in the attic -- they're fresher.  OK,
but before you leave, could you help me get my chainsaw out of the
shed?  Hey -- don't you want to talk to me?"
I've told this story here before, but a friend of mine back in college
used to seduce every missionary that came to her door. Every. Single.
One. Sometimes they left crying, for having so betrayed their faith.
She was fun.
Bull Godham. :-)
Remysun
2008-08-26 23:40:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
I've told this story here before, but a friend of mine back in college
used to seduce every missionary that came to her door.  Every. Single.
One.  Sometimes they left crying, for having so betrayed their faith.
Now that's a missionary position!
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-27 00:37:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Have you considered out-weirding them?
When I approached in a public place:  Ask him/it/her/them to back up
and leave a space open.  After you have a space look up into the empty
sky and say: "You can land now -- you were saying?"
(Used more than once.)  "RAISE YOUR HAND IF YOU WANT TO KNOW THE
WAY... I SAID RAAAAAAISE YOUR HAND IF WANNA KNOOOOOOOW THE WAY.
<scream louder> I SAAAAID RAISE YOUR HAAAAAAAND IF YOU WANNA KNOW THE
WAAAAAAAAAY!!!!  THE WAY TO THE BATHROOM!"
Just tell them you're a Catholic.  Scares the shit out of fundies.
Usually they hiss and run away. (Drives Mormons and Jehovah's
Witnesses away too.)  If you get a bolder one ask him to pray the
Rosary with you.  That'll do it.
(Haven't tried yet -- should work.)  "Wow, you're a First Saturday of
Every Third Month Baptist?  I haven't got one of them yet!  Want to
see my collection of Jehovah's Witnesses in the basement?  No?  What
about the Mormon missionaries in the attic -- they're fresher.  OK,
but before you leave, could you help me get my chainsaw out of the
shed?  Hey -- don't you want to talk to me?"
I've told this story here before, but a friend of mine back in college
used to seduce every missionary that came to her door.  Every. Single.
One.  Sometimes they left crying, for having so betrayed their faith.
She was fun.
Somerset Maughm line, re missionaries,, same sitch - All me are
pigs. Forgetting the short story, but that was the closing line. But
it's not my closing line.

I disagree, but a bartender I knew said men are dogs, women are cats.
Kick a dog and he wonders why, kick the cat and off she goes. Which
explains the current crop of sitcoms.
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-27 00:52:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
I've told this story here before, but a friend of mine back in college
used to seduce every missionary that came to her door.  Every. Single.
One.  Sometimes they left crying, for having so betrayed their faith.
She was fun.
Somerset Maughm line, re missionaries, same sitch  - All men are
pigs.  Forgetting the short story, but that was the closing line.  But
it's not my closing line.
What all men are (okay, for Neal, MOST men are) is slaves to our
biology. If men were as picky as women, when choosing when and with
whom to have sex, the human race would die out in a generation. That
we're ready to go, pretty much anywhere, any time, with anybody, is
hard-wired into the system, so no opportunity is ever missed because
she's ready but can't talk a man into it. Seducing a man, for a woman
who's in any way attractive (and boy howdy was she) is pretty much
like striking out the pitcher.
I disagree, but a bartender I knew said men are dogs, women are cats.
Kick a dog and he wonders why, kick the cat and off she goes.  Which
explains the current crop of sitcoms.
Too many women clinging to, going back to, and even getting killed by
the men who insist on kicking them for that scenario to pass muster.

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
Jeri Jo Thomas
2008-08-27 00:51:05 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:30:47 +0000 (UTC) Steven J. Weller (az941
@lafn.org) stepped to the mic and said...
Post by Steven J. Weller
I've told this story here before, but a friend of mine back in college
used to seduce every missionary that came to her door. Every. Single.
One. Sometimes they left crying, for having so betrayed their faith.
She was fun.
Men are so easy. And this is why Muslim women are shut away in their own
part of the mosque to pray. Hundreds of raised male butts? No big deal,
but hundreds of raised FEMALE butts? Those guys would instantly become
uncontrollable, clawing, humping animals. Or so their thinking goes.
--
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
The Peripatetic Samurai Robot
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
Jeri Jo Thomas
2008-08-27 00:48:14 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:48:30 +0000 (UTC) RonB (***@gmail.com)
stepped to the mic and said...
Post by RonB
Post by Remysun
Post by RonB
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"
The fundamentalist trapping you in a restaurant booth because he knows
you're too nice to cause a scene, believing that he's saving your
soul-- fucking scary.
Annoying. But scary? Are you guys really that timid?
A new plot for a movie called "The Devil's Rain": He preached that
unbelievers would go to hell and when they didn't believe him he decided
to bring Hell to the unbelievers.
--
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
The Peripatetic Samurai Robot
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
RonB
2008-08-27 02:54:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Jeri Jo Thomas
A new plot for a movie called "The Devil's Rain": He preached that
unbelievers would go to hell and when they didn't believe him he decided
to bring Hell to the unbelievers.
Or the FISH Mafia...

EXT. DINER -- DAY

Rain pours. A bedraggled, scrawny teenager, Allen, the wheel of his
bicycle wobbling as he slides to a stop in front of the Diner, parks
his bike against the wall, below a blinking, neon "Got Milk?" sign.

When he turns away, lightning flashes as the sign turns into a Christian
Fish.

He squeezes some of the water out of the soaked sleeves of his
oversized surplus army jacket, wipes back his long, scraggly hair
and enters the Diner.

INT. DINER -- CONTINUOUS

An old fashioned cow bell clangs as he enters into a squeaky clean
world of 50s red vinyl and chrome

A neon sign above the bar flashes back and forth between "Got Milk?"
and "Got Jesus?"

Large, muscular, clean shaven, short-haired PATRONS, plastered
smiles on their faces, turn back to stare.

Allen grimaces and turns back to the door just as a huge lightning
bolt flashes and the windows rattle from the thunder.

He quickly slinks into a booth, and stares out the window at the
pouring rain.

The PATRONS continue their silent, plastered-smiled stare. One nods
and rises.

He has a tract in his hand when he gets to the booth.

PATRON
Are you saved, son?

A WAITRESS, in an old-fashioned, pink uniform nears with a pitcher
of milk, but she's waved away by the Patron.

ALLEN
I, uh...

The Patron offers his hand.

PATRON
Joseph.
(pause)
Grodin was my unbeliever name.

Allen half stands as he stretches out his hand

Allen
Uh... Al.

Joseph sits.

JOSEPH
Pie? Milk?

ALLEN
(under his breath)
Coffee...

Joseph waves the WAITRESS over.

JOSEPH
On me. Five specials.

He motions his friends to come over.

JOSEPH
Don't mind some company, do ya'?

Three more, plastered-smiled, muscular PATRONS sit down in
the booth, surrounding Allen.

ALLEN
I think the rain is letting up--

JOSEPH
--Have you considered where you'll
spend eternity, son?

ALLEN
I'm a... an.. atheist.

The four men force laughter.

JOSEPH
The Lord told me you'd come here
today.
(pause)
Amen brothers?

Three "Amens" in unison.

JOSEPH
See, son, we can either save you from
Hell -- or speed you on your way.

The Waitress arrives with pie and milk.

JOSEPH
Thank you kindly, Mildred.

Joseph distributes the pie and milk.

JOSEPH
Let's hold hands and pray, shall
we?

Allen has no choice in the matter.

JOSEPH
Thank you Lord for the opportunity
to save this heathen from the yawning
mouth of Hellfire and damnation. Please
Lord, let him choose rightly that we may
show him the right arm of kindness and not
left arm of retribution.

Four "Amens."

JOSEPH
Dig in, son.

Allen's fork shakes noticeably as the pie falls to the table.

JOSEPH
Good, huh?

Allen nods woodenly.

JOSEPH
While you're eating, son, I would like
to read this little tract. We call it
the "Sinner's Prayer."
(pause)
Read it and choose this day by checking
one of the two boxes.

Allen reads.

JOSEPH
The Lord tells me that you're a smart
boy.

The forced laughter.

JOSEPH
Make it easy on yourself. Make the right
decision.

Brass knuckles and a couple knives have appeared on the
table top.

JOSEPH
Now, now boys, let's not be hasty.

Allen gulps.

Joseph puts his finger on the first check mark.

JOSEPH
Right there, son.

Allen checks the top "I accept the Lord" box, breaking
the pencil point as his shakes spastically.

Four "Hallelujahs" in unison.

Mildred locks the front door after she drags the bicycle
inside. Blinds silently slide shut over the windows.

Knife blades click open.

JOSEPH
Praise the Lord, son. But the Lord tells
me you'll backslide and we can't allow that.
(pause)
Let us hasten his way to the Pearly
Gates my brothers.

They rise.

Four "Amens" in unison.
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 01:36:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by m***@rcn.com
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary.  Think
Kool-Aid.  No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"
It's kind of like saying that a bag lady screaming "The world is ending" is
somehow "scary."
My bud is perfectly sane in business life, and his wife is lovely, and
he has this fascist attitude - he makes sense, but holy smokes.
Fundys can be fun - but this guy? Not sure. He thinks that anyone
who hasn't heard of God is hellbound. So I say, "Maybe God has other
plans - it's not their fault they never heard of Him." And he says,
confidently, "No, they're going to hell." Everyone in a remote
village is doomed to hell - this is not the same God I know.
RonB
2008-08-26 02:51:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
My bud is perfectly sane in business life, and his wife is lovely, and
he has this fascist attitude - he makes sense, but holy smokes.
Fundys can be fun - but this guy?  Not sure.  He thinks that anyone
who hasn't heard of God is hellbound.  So I say, "Maybe God has other
plans - it's not their fault they never heard of Him."  And he says,
confidently, "No, they're going to hell."  Everyone in a remote
village is doomed to hell - this is not the same God I know.
Not the same as mine either, but he's still not "scary." At least not to me.
--
RonB
"There's a story there...somewhere"
Skipper
2008-08-26 04:28:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
Post by RonB
Post by m***@rcn.com
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary.  Think
Kool-Aid.  No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"
It's kind of like saying that a bag lady screaming "The world is ending" is
somehow "scary."
My bud is perfectly sane in business life, and his wife is lovely, and
he has this fascist attitude - he makes sense, but holy smokes.
Fundys can be fun - but this guy? Not sure. He thinks that anyone
who hasn't heard of God is hellbound. So I say, "Maybe God has other
plans - it's not their fault they never heard of Him." And he says,
confidently, "No, they're going to hell." Everyone in a remote
village is doomed to hell - this is not the same God I know.
So? What's "scary" about it? Are you scared he might be right?

I grew up around those people. I remember telling a preacher once, when
I was 7 and sitting in the front pew, that the Lake of Fire (in Hell)
he was showing us had to be drawn by someone, which meant they had to
go there and look and then come back, right?

It pissed him off so bad he told me to leave (really, we lived next
door). Preacher's kids were always the craziest in small Texas towns
where I grew up. The Lake of Fire preacher's kid gave me the only scars
on my body, trying to kill me twice.

But people talking, telling you their beliefs are "scary"? PLEASE.

Bunch of fucking Muslims telling me they're going to blow up anyone who
doesn't believe in Allah and then actually going about doing it, THAT
is scary. And that's why I'll never vote for an idiot Democrat.
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-26 04:21:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by RonB
Post by m***@rcn.com
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary.  Think
Kool-Aid.  No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"
It's scary - or at least can be - because some of them fear hell to
such an extent that they can go way beyond the pale (in more earthly
terms) to protect you from it. When good, righteous, God-fearing
Christians were in the business of burning witches and heretics and
Jews, it was seen by some as an act of love, not of murder. You burn
someone (or torture them to death, or whatever) so that you can chase
out the evil demon that's possessing them, and keeping them from God.
Sure, their earthly body might die, but so what? That's not important
- what's important is that you've saved them from HELL!

The same rational behind killing an abortion doctor or bombing an
abortion clinic - saving all those unborn lives, sure, but also
dissuading all those mothers from killing their babies and never
repenting it ('cause it was just a 'medical procedure') and ending up
in HELL!

No doctor wants to cut off someone's leg, but if it's that or the
patient dies, then out comes the saw. No good Christian really wants
to kill another human being, but if it's that or someone (or maybe
even a lot of someones) goes to hell, then maybe I'm A Part Of God's
Greater Plan and out come the guns, or bombs, or whatever.

That's scary.

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-26 04:57:03 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:52:31 +0000 (UTC), RonB
Post by RonB
Post by m***@rcn.com
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary.  Think
Kool-Aid.  No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
I've seen some weird fundamentalists -- but how, exactly, is a
fundamentalist believing you're going to hell, "scary?"
It's kind of like saying that a bag lady screaming "The world is ending" is
somehow "scary."
I had one come over to my house several times and, without permission,
attach large decorative crosses to the exterior. Annoying, especially
since he damaged the exterior. But not quite scary.
Remysun
2008-08-26 05:19:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
I had one come over to my house several times and, without permission,
attach large decorative crosses to the exterior.  Annoying, especially
since he damaged the exterior.  But not quite scary.
He damaged your property. That's either vandalism or small claims
court.
Paulo Joe Jingy
2008-08-26 05:37:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
I had one come over to my house several times and, without permission,
attach large decorative crosses to the exterior. Annoying, especially
since he damaged the exterior. But not quite scary.
He damaged your property. That's either vandalism or small claims
court.
In order to do that you first have to cower in your basement while you
call out the National Guard, to arrest "scary", Mr. Bag Lady.

And then hope to hell he/she/it doesn't have friends with more
decorative crosses and more of that toxic and intimidating rhetoric
about "saving your soul".

Gangs of bag ladies with "decorative crosses" and "the message". Hey
that's way more scarier than zombies.

Run and hide!!! THEY'RE COOOOOOMING!!!

"Young man, young man, wait for me, I want to give this Gideon New
Testament."

"AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-26 07:36:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Post by Remysun
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
I had one come over to my house several times and, without permission,
attach large decorative crosses to the exterior.  Annoying, especially
since he damaged the exterior.  But not quite scary.
He damaged your property. That's either vandalism or small claims
court.
In order to do that you first have to cower in your basement while you
call out the National Guard, to arrest "scary", Mr. Bag Lady.
And then hope to hell he/she/it doesn't have friends with more
decorative crosses and more of that toxic and intimidating rhetoric
about "saving your soul".
Gangs of bag ladies with "decorative crosses" and "the message".  Hey
that's way more scarier than zombies.
Run and hide!!!  THEY'RE COOOOOOMING!!!
"Young man, young man, wait for me, I want to give this Gideon New
Testament."
"AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"
Y'know... thread drift and all, but... it's been done.

Back when SNL was still LfNY,iSN! they did Night of the Living
Moonies, satirizing the Unification Church cult recruiting a bunch of
unwilling followers in a black-and-white farm house in rural PA. It
ended, IIRC, with a newly 'recruited' Larrain Newman, glassy-eyed and
shuffling toward the camera, saying "May I please give you one of our
pamphlets?"

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
Jeri Jo Thomas
2008-08-27 00:47:17 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 05:37:48 +0000 (UTC) Paulo Joe Jingy
Post by Paulo Joe Jingy
Post by Remysun
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
I had one come over to my house several times and, without permission,
attach large decorative crosses to the exterior. Annoying, especially
since he damaged the exterior. But not quite scary.
He damaged your property. That's either vandalism or small claims
court.
In order to do that you first have to cower in your basement while you
call out the National Guard, to arrest "scary", Mr. Bag Lady.
And then hope to hell he/she/it doesn't have friends with more
decorative crosses and more of that toxic and intimidating rhetoric
about "saving your soul".
Gangs of bag ladies with "decorative crosses" and "the message". Hey
that's way more scarier than zombies.
Run and hide!!! THEY'RE COOOOOOMING!!!
"Young man, young man, wait for me, I want to give this Gideon New
Testament."
"AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!"
On my second to last car someone glued a plastic bronze cross emblem to
the front bumper. No idea who did it, never saw another car with one
like it. I always said when it dropped off I'd buy a new car. It did, I
did.
--
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
The Peripatetic Samurai Robot
<*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*>
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-26 01:06:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary.  Think
Kool-Aid.  No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
Well, given that that's a basic tennent of Christianity, it's hardly
just the scary fundies that believe it. Most American Christians,
though, are pretty casual about their religion - probably as casual as
a lot of Jews are about theirs. The difference is still that the
Christians who aren't casual are - by definition - on a mission to
convert the rest of the world, and some of them go off the deep end in
their attempts. Bombing clinics, murdering doctors, sabotaging
contraceptives, etc - in the name of their belief in the
supernatural. The Jews who aren't casual about their beliefs don't
seem to be doing much beyond wearing hats and curly sideburns, and
keeping to themselves. Not a lot of villiany there.

And while I don't really see myself responding much more to the troll
who started this all (what can I say; it was late and I was bored),
this seems an easy point at which to add that the government of Israel
is a government rather than a religion, and it behaves as such.
Sometimes benignly, sometimes despotically, and - unfortunately -
almost always with the implied caveat that to disagree with the
government of Israel is to be anti-semetic. I don't buy that for a
moment, but we (meaning Monolithic Liberal Hollywood And All That We
Stand For) don't generally cast the governments of nations the US
considers allies as villians, even when they're acting villianous...
ly? Villianly? Villian-ly... ish? Even when they're doing bad
stuff.

--
Life Continues, Despite
My Lack of a Handy Thesaurus

Steven
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-26 02:55:29 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:06:10 +0000 (UTC), "Steven J. Weller"
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by m***@rcn.com
Well, I don't know from Hollywood libs, but I do know from the NY sort
- and frankly, the Christian fundamentalists are truly scary.  Think
Kool-Aid.  No Jewish person I know thinks of this as a possibility..
But I know a fundy who actually believes anyone who has not accepted
Jesus is going to Hell.
Well, given that that's a basic tennent of Christianity, it's hardly
just the scary fundies that believe it. Most American Christians,
though, are pretty casual about their religion - probably as casual as
a lot of Jews are about theirs. The difference is still that the
Christians who aren't casual are - by definition - on a mission to
convert the rest of the world, and some of them go off the deep end in
their attempts. Bombing clinics, murdering doctors, sabotaging
contraceptives, etc - in the name of their belief in the
supernatural. The Jews who aren't casual about their beliefs don't
seem to be doing much beyond wearing hats and curly sideburns, and
keeping to themselves. Not a lot of villiany there.
Have you never heard of Irv Rubin? Or are you lying?
Post by Steven J. Weller
And while I don't really see myself responding much more to the troll
who started this all (what can I say; it was late and I was bored),
Aren't you all just a bunch of trolls who have tried to commandeer a
usenet group about screenwriting for their personal chit-chat?
Post by Steven J. Weller
this seems an easy point at which to add that the government of Israel
is a government rather than a religion, and it behaves as such.
When fundamentalist Christians try to impose their religious views on
government, it is what it is. But when fundamentalist Jews try to
impose their religious views on government, it is ... just government.
Post by Steven J. Weller
Sometimes benignly, sometimes despotically, and - unfortunately -
almost always with the implied caveat that to disagree with the
government of Israel is to be anti-semetic.
Which is far more noxious than saying they are going to hell.
Post by Steven J. Weller
I don't buy that for a
moment, but we (meaning Monolithic Liberal Hollywood And All That We
Stand For) don't generally cast the governments of nations the US
considers allies as villians, even when they're acting villianous...
ly? Villianly? Villian-ly... ish? Even when they're doing bad
stuff.
Hollywood often casts its own government, the part that isn't PC
liberal, as villains.
Sammyo
2008-08-26 01:33:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Schlockhack
So why no Israeli Jewish fundamentalist villains?
What kind of action would a ficitious fundamentalist Jew, acting from
his religious beliefs, perform that would make him a Hollywood
villain?  
Dude, duh, he'd try to kill James Bond in an incredibly spectacular
way. Lasers, wrath of gd, the standard stuff.

I am sort of expecting a pseudo-meaningful takeoff on some kaballah
theme at some point that is just wrong in every way.

Hey, who'd exit the Thunderdome, Bond or Zohan?
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-26 02:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Schlockhack
So why no Israeli Jewish fundamentalist villains?
What kind of action would a ficitious fundamentalist Jew, acting from
his religious beliefs, perform that would make him a Hollywood
villain? Build a settlement in the West Bank? We're talking about
American-made tv shows and movies aimed at an American audience.
The kind of Hollywood liberals you mention look down on fundamentalist
Christians in a general way, as being unevolved red state peasants.
But. In terms of concrete activities, it really boils down to two
issues: homophobia and abortion.
For all I know Orthodox Jews might
hold anti-gay and anti-abortion sentiments, but if so they keep it to
themselves, they don't blockade abortion clinics or stump for anti-gay
legislation. So how would a fundamentalist Jew be portrayed as a
villain by Hollywood liberals?
A spy for Israel? Someone who blows up mosques and arab activists in
the USA? Someone who lives up to those wacky conspiracy theories
about Jewish extremists blowing up someone to foment a war between the
US and the Arab world? Just as plausible as wacky conspiracy theories
about the FBI or the CIA or Arab Extremists or gay English terrorists,
all of which seem to appear in the movies.

But, that is beside the point. My question was, Why do Hollywood
liberals hate Christians, which they clearly do? If Mahr ridicules
Christians for their belief in a few supernatural beings, then he
should find it just as ridiculous that Jews believe in the same
supernatural being as well as some very implausible events like Moses
parting the Red Sea. And don't even mention what scientologists
think, which is completely divorced from reality and science.

But Hollywood liberals do not make fun of Jews' beliefs, and only very
occasionally make fun of scientologists' irresistibly ridiculous
beliefs. Nor do they make fun of fundamentalist Christians actions --
they attack Christians' beliefs.

My theory: "Hollywood is like high school but worse," and it is
really just one social clique/gang versus another. The intellectual
pretenses are annoying.

- Ibn Kahldun, an atheist
Remysun
2008-08-26 02:24:17 UTC
Permalink
But, that is beside the point.  My question was, Why do Hollywood
liberals hate Christians, which they clearly do?  If Mahr ridicules
Christians for their belief in a few supernatural beings, then he
should find it just as ridiculous that Jews believe in the same
supernatural being as well as some very implausible events like Moses
parting the Red Sea.  And don't even mention what scientologists
think, which is completely divorced from reality and science.  
Sorry to break the news to you bud, but Bill Mahr makes fun of
everybody. It's called a schtick.
MC
2008-08-26 02:44:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
But, that is beside the point.  My question was, Why do Hollywood
liberals hate Christians, which they clearly do?  If Mahr ridicules
Christians for their belief in a few supernatural beings, then he
should find it just as ridiculous that Jews believe in the same
supernatural being as well as some very implausible events like Moses
parting the Red Sea.  And don't even mention what scientologists
think, which is completely divorced from reality and science.  
Sorry to break the news to you bud, but Bill Mahr makes fun of
everybody. It's called a schtick.
Wilford Brimley
Dan Aykroyd
Katharine Hepburn
Martin Scorsese

Bill Maher
shtick
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
Remysun
2008-08-26 03:46:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by MC
Wilford Brimley
Dan Aykroyd
Katharine Hepburn
Martin Scorsese
Bill Maher
shtick
I never got why you list the names and do that, MC.
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-26 04:25:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by MC
Wilford Brimley
Dan Aykroyd
Katharine Hepburn
Martin Scorsese
Bill Maher
shtick
I never got why you list the names and do that, MC.
They're all names that are/were commonly misspelled here on MWS/m.

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
Skipper
2008-08-26 04:44:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by Remysun
Post by MC
Wilford Brimley
Dan Aykroyd
Katharine Hepburn
Martin Scorsese
Bill Maher
shtick
I never got why you list the names and do that, MC.
They're all names that are/were commonly misspelled here on MWS/m.
I saw Wilford Brimley tonight at the McCain fundraiser, God bless him.
Remysun
2008-08-26 06:12:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by MC
Wilford Brimley
Dan Aykroyd
Katharine Hepburn
Martin Scorsese
Bill Maher
shtick
They're all names that are/were commonly misspelled here on MWS/m.
Google needs a spell checker-- sphincter?
Sammyo
2008-08-26 14:17:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
Post by Remysun
Post by MC
Wilford Brimley
Dan Aykroyd
Katharine Hepburn
Martin Scorsese
Bill Maher
shtick
I never got why you list the names and do that, MC.
They're all names that are/were commonly misspelled here on MWS/m.
--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary
Steven
Whew, I was so worried it was "slept with"....
Remysun
2008-08-26 14:47:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sammyo
Whew, I was so worried it was "slept with"....
If you've read Hepburn's memoir of The African Queen, her father was a
proctologist, and the location gave her plenty of reason to talk poop.
MC
2008-08-26 15:13:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by Sammyo
Whew, I was so worried it was "slept with"....
If you've read Hepburn's memoir of The African Queen, her father was a
proctologist, and the location gave her plenty of reason to talk poop.
And not only that, but she had a convenient poopdeck.
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
Sammyo
2008-08-26 13:33:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My question was, Why do Hollywood
liberals hate Christians, which they clearly do?
Sorry to break the news to you bud, but Bill Mahr makes fun of
everybody. It's called a schtick.
Sorry MC. I'm sure you know the only answer is, take a beat, "They
Are Jews".

It's pretty obvious Ibn keeps working his way around to that, it's a
pathetic attempt with just enough obfuscation to get a thread going.
Ibn is unlikely of middle eastern descent, more likely a 600lb white
trash trailer park dweller in Alabama, or failed political troll
living in his mom's basement. He'll give up here soon enough and go
onto another forum.
MC
2008-08-26 13:47:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sammyo
Post by Remysun
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My question was, Why do Hollywood
liberals hate Christians, which they clearly do?
Sorry to break the news to you bud, but Bill Mahr makes fun of
everybody. It's called a schtick.
Sorry MC. I'm sure you know the only answer is, take a beat, "They
Are Jews".
It's pretty obvious Ibn keeps working his way around to that, it's a
pathetic attempt with just enough obfuscation to get a thread going.
Ibn is unlikely of middle eastern descent, more likely a 600lb white
trash trailer park dweller in Alabama, or failed political troll
living in his mom's basement. He'll give up here soon enough and go
onto another forum.
You're quoting my post but misattributing the line.
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
Schlockhack
2008-08-27 01:17:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sammyo
Ibn is unlikely of middle eastern descent, more likely a 600lb white
trash trailer park dweller in Alabama, or failed political troll
living in his mom's basement

I had that very same suspicion myself several weeks back, when Ibn
declared that the famous Persian poet Omar Khayyam, who lived in Iran,
was an arab. An odd mistake for a semite to make. I said to myself,
he's probably a phony.
Schlockhack
2008-08-27 01:27:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Sammyo
Ibn is unlikely of middle eastern descent, more likely a 600lb white
Before you get on our case for being ignorant Americans, Ibn, we know
very well that Ibn means son of, like Mc in Ireland, Mac in Scotland,
and Ben in Israel.
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-27 10:22:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Schlockhack
Post by Sammyo
Ibn is unlikely of middle eastern descent, more likely a 600lb white
Before you get on our case for being ignorant Americans, Ibn, we know
very well that Ibn means son of, like Mc in Ireland, Mac in Scotland,
and Ben in Israel.
And Fitz means bastard - so JFK was not only Catholic, he was the
descendant b son of somebody - I'm guessing Gerald - it's the name
thing. I'm hearing it. What is this, rogue week?
Remysun
2008-08-27 14:07:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
And Fitz means bastard - so JFK was not only Catholic, he was the
descendant b son of somebody - I'm guessing Gerald - it's the name
thing.  I'm hearing it.  What is this, rogue week?
Teddy gave the Kopechne family the fitz.
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-27 16:09:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Remysun
Post by m***@rcn.com
And Fitz means bastard - so JFK was not only Catholic, he was the
descendant b son of somebody - I'm guessing Gerald - it's the name
thing.  I'm hearing it.  What is this, rogue week?
Teddy gave the Kopechne family the fitz.
How complex can one life be? He kills a girl, fails at a run for
President, votes corrcectly (sp) in Massachuset's elections, had that
drunk wife - and now this. The guy was a total striver. And, since
he's part of my gene pool - by long distance - yo go guy.

I can't, though, believe he overcame murder to become a Senator. It's
wrong all around, and I'm loyal.
Steven J. Weller
2008-08-27 22:46:46 UTC
Permalink
How complex can one life be?  He kills a girl, fails at a run for
President, votes corrcectly (sp) in Massachuset's  elections, had that
drunk wife - and now this.  The guy was a total striver.  And, since
he's part of my gene pool - by long distance - yo go guy.
I can't, though, believe he overcame murder to become a Senator.  It's
wrong all around, and I'm loyal.
Well, not so much "murder" as stupid drunken accident. As is usual in
these kinds of things, the cover-up was worse than the crime. This
was all long before M.A.D.D. and 'zero tolerance' and all of that; he
probably could have gotten out from under it had he manned up at the
time. And I don't just mean gotten out from under it in the legal
sense. He might have made a successful run for the presidency if he'd
owned up to his mistake, taken the slap on the wrist, and moved on.
Like Clinton and his infamous blowjob, the way to make something go
away is to 'fess up and appologize. These days, all can be forgiven -
and indeen MUST be forgiven - with a quick trip to rehab. When
Chappaquiddick (sp) happened, rehab wasn't even necessary.

--
Life Continues, Despite
Evidence to the Contrary

Steven
Skipper
2008-08-27 23:40:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Steven J. Weller
How complex can one life be?  He kills a girl, fails at a run for
President, votes corrcectly (sp) in Massachuset's  elections, had that
drunk wife - and now this.  The guy was a total striver.  And, since
he's part of my gene pool - by long distance - yo go guy.
I can't, though, believe he overcame murder to become a Senator.  It's
wrong all around, and I'm loyal.
Well, not so much "murder" as stupid drunken accident. As is usual in
these kinds of things, the cover-up was worse than the crime. This
was all long before M.A.D.D. and 'zero tolerance' and all of that; he
probably could have gotten out from under it had he manned up at the
time. And I don't just mean gotten out from under it in the legal
sense. He might have made a successful run for the presidency if he'd
owned up to his mistake, taken the slap on the wrist, and moved on.
Like Clinton and his infamous blowjob, the way to make something go
away is to 'fess up and appologize. These days, all can be forgiven -
and indeen MUST be forgiven - with a quick trip to rehab. When
Chappaquiddick (sp) happened, rehab wasn't even necessary.
At least with the brain operation he's intelligible when he speaks now.

Every time I see him I think of that rock group, The Dead Kennedys.
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-28 01:18:21 UTC
Permalink
How complex can one life be?  He kills a girl, fails at a run for
President, votes corrcectly (sp) in Massachuset's  elections, had that
drunk wife - and now this.  The guy was a total striver.  And, since
he's part of my gene pool - by long distance - yo go guy.
I can't, though, believe he overcame murder to become a Senator.  It's
wrong all around, and I'm loyal.
Well, not so much "murder" as stupid drunken accident.  As is usual in
these kinds of things, the cover-up was worse than the crime.  
True - me rethinking - he ran, and was not a hero. He coulda tried to
get get Mary Jo out of the car - it was a case of running away, when
he could have been the mud-covered hero pulling her out of the drink.
So right now it looks like he blew it. But he did go on do be Mass
Sen and vote good - go figure.

But he ran.
Remysun
2008-08-28 01:39:25 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
But he ran.
I'm pretty much in agreement with Denis Leary that they kill all the
wrong people.
Carl Dershem
2008-08-28 00:42:58 UTC
Permalink
Post by Schlockhack
Post by Sammyo
Ibn is unlikely of middle eastern descent, more likely a 600lb white
Before you get on our case for being ignorant Americans, Ibn, we know
very well that Ibn means son of, like Mc in Ireland, Mac in Scotland,
and Ben in Israel.
And "Mose" means the same thing in Egyptian. Thus, Ramses is "Son of Ra
and Tutmose is "Son of Tut" (or more often "som of Thoth"), which means
that Moses was the son of no one - a bastard.

Playing games with words is easy, but often meaningless.

cd
--
The difference between immorality and immortality is "T". I like Earl
Grey.
MC
2008-08-28 02:12:20 UTC
Permalink
Post by Carl Dershem
Post by Schlockhack
Before you get on our case for being ignorant Americans, Ibn, we know
very well that Ibn means son of, like Mc in Ireland, Mac in Scotland,
and Ben in Israel.
And "Mose" means the same thing in Egyptian. Thus, Ramses is "Son of Ra
and Tutmose is "Son of Tut" (or more often "som of Thoth"), which means
that Moses was the son of no one - a bastard.
Playing games with words is easy, but often meaningless.
I wonder if Mose Allison had a son called Mose would he be Mosemose?
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
Alan Brooks
2008-08-26 02:52:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My question was, Why do Hollywood
liberals hate Christians, which they clearly do?
No, they very often *target* Christians with their humor, which is not the
same as hating them.

Humor is a lot like target practice: big targets are easier to hit. There's
not a whole lot of humor in going after Zoastrians.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
If Mahr ridicules
Christians for their belief in a few supernatural beings, then he
should find it just as ridiculous that Jews believe in the same
supernatural being as well as some very implausible events like Moses
parting the Red Sea. And don't even mention what scientologists
think, which is completely divorced from reality and science.
But Hollywood liberals do not make fun of Jews' beliefs, and only very
occasionally make fun of scientologists' irresistibly ridiculous
beliefs. Nor do they make fun of fundamentalist Christians actions --
they attack Christians' beliefs.
No, they *do* make fun off all these things, it's just that you apparently
don't get the humor. You don't think Ari Gold is making fun of Jews when he
bypasses his wife's father to give his star client a special roll at his
daughter's bat mitvah just so another agent can't chat him up? You don't
think Woody Allen's is making fun of Jews when he casts himself as
hyper-sensitive to antisemitism? You don't think Zohan is making fun of
both Jews and Muslims?

See, you can knock minority religions and cultures, but mostly it doesn't
play well in Des Moines because NOBODY GETS IT. When you make fun of
Christians, you might offend some, but at least everyone gets it.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My theory: "Hollywood is like high school but worse,"
Gee... Very original.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
and it is really just one social clique/gang versus another. The
intellectual pretenses are annoying.
I had a great time in high school. Was there something bad going on that I
didn't notice?

Alan Brooks
---------------------------
A Schmuck with an Underwood

-- Oh, and sorry about the
swirlies, Ibn Kahldun...

MWSM FAQ: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/faq.html
Filtering Trolls: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/trolls.html
I***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-26 03:09:18 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:52:27 +0000 (UTC), Alan Brooks
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My question was, Why do Hollywood
liberals hate Christians, which they clearly do?
No, they very often *target* Christians with their humor, which is not the
same as hating them.
Humor is a lot like target practice: big targets are easier to hit. There's
not a whole lot of humor in going after Zoastrians.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
If Mahr ridicules
Christians for their belief in a few supernatural beings, then he
should find it just as ridiculous that Jews believe in the same
supernatural being as well as some very implausible events like Moses
parting the Red Sea. And don't even mention what scientologists
think, which is completely divorced from reality and science.
But Hollywood liberals do not make fun of Jews' beliefs, and only very
occasionally make fun of scientologists' irresistibly ridiculous
beliefs. Nor do they make fun of fundamentalist Christians actions --
they attack Christians' beliefs.
No, they *do* make fun off all these things, it's just that you apparently
don't get the humor. You don't think Ari Gold is making fun of Jews when he
bypasses his wife's father to give his star client a special roll at his
daughter's bat mitvah just so another agent can't chat him up? You don't
think Woody Allen's is making fun of Jews when he casts himself as
hyper-sensitive to antisemitism? You don't think Zohan is making fun of
both Jews and Muslims?
The vast majority of Mahr's ridicule is directed toward Christians,
and it is often hostile. More important, his ridicule is directed
toward their beliefs. Making fun of a Jewish Hollywood agent is not
the same thing as making fun of Jewish religious beliefs.
Post by Alan Brooks
See, you can knock minority religions and cultures, but mostly it doesn't
play well in Des Moines because NOBODY GETS IT. When you make fun of
Christians, you might offend some, but at least everyone gets it.
There's some truth in that. But there's more truth in my contention
that Hollywood liberals hate Christians for deep-rooted irrational
reasons. The Jews here turned it into a referendum on Jews, but the
thread is actually about why Hollywood liberals are particularly
hostile to Christians.
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My theory: "Hollywood is like high school but worse,"
Gee... Very original.
That's why it's in quotes.
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
and it is really just one social clique/gang versus another. The
intellectual pretenses are annoying.
I had a great time in high school. Was there something bad going on that I
didn't notice?
Gangs?
Alan Brooks
2008-08-26 04:10:07 UTC
Permalink
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
The vast majority of Mahr's ridicule is directed toward Christians,
and it is often hostile. More important, his ridicule is directed
toward their beliefs. Making fun of a Jewish Hollywood agent is not
the same thing as making fun of Jewish religious beliefs.
I get the distinction, but I don't really buy it. The Christian Bible is
simply the holy book of the Jews with an additional 2 or 3 dozen "books"
added on. So half the stories overlap. If you make fun of the creation
story, or Noah, Sampson, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Coat of Many Colors,
Daniel in the Lion's Den, Solomon offering to cut babies in half -- hundreds
of other stories in fact -- you're making fun of the fundamental myths
underlying Judaism, Christianity and Muslim religions and dozens of splinter
religions.

Okay, when you make fun of Jesus and the disciples, then you're making fun
of Christians alone. Sure, it's done. Every religion gets ridiculed.
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
See, you can knock minority religions and cultures, but mostly it doesn't
play well in Des Moines because NOBODY GETS IT. When you make fun of
Christians, you might offend some, but at least everyone gets it.
There's some truth in that. But there's more truth in my contention
that Hollywood liberals hate Christians for deep-rooted irrational
reasons. The Jews here turned it into a referendum on Jews, but the
thread is actually about why Hollywood liberals are particularly
hostile to Christians.
That's your thesis, but a thread topic is open to interpretation, and you're
not really supporting your argument in any way.

Here's a thought experiment: try to come up with a funny religious comedy
that ridicules anything religion except Christianity. Now try to make it
funny to an average, white, middle-class family in Kansas City. Can you do
it? If you can, I guarantee you could sell it. But I don't think you can
do it.
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My theory: "Hollywood is like high school but worse,"
Gee... Very original.
That's why it's in quotes.
Putting it in quotes doesn't make it "your" theory. It makes it the theory
to which you subscribe.
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
and it is really just one social clique/gang versus another. The
intellectual pretenses are annoying.
I had a great time in high school. Was there something bad going on that I
didn't notice?
Gangs?
No, I noticed that. Didn't bother me. It sounded more to me like you were
whining about being left out.

Alan Brooks
---------------------------
A Schmuck with an Underwood

-- Young Fu

MWSM FAQ: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/faq.html
Filtering Trolls: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/trolls.html
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-26 05:36:27 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 04:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Alan Brooks
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
The vast majority of Mahr's ridicule is directed toward Christians,
and it is often hostile. More important, his ridicule is directed
toward their beliefs. Making fun of a Jewish Hollywood agent is not
the same thing as making fun of Jewish religious beliefs.
I get the distinction, but I don't really buy it. The Christian Bible is
simply the holy book of the Jews with an additional 2 or 3 dozen "books"
added on. So half the stories overlap. If you make fun of the creation
story, or Noah, Sampson, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Coat of Many Colors,
Daniel in the Lion's Den, Solomon offering to cut babies in half -- hundreds
of other stories in fact -- you're making fun of the fundamental myths
underlying Judaism, Christianity and Muslim religions and dozens of splinter
religions.
Yes, but it is always Christians who are held up as the fools
believing these things. When he makes fun of Muslims, he makes fun of
their beliefs in Allah and the 72 virgins. He doesn't make much fun
of scientologists for believing what they believe. I'm not going to
say anything more about Jews for fear of more thread drift.
Post by Alan Brooks
Okay, when you make fun of Jesus and the disciples, then you're making fun
of Christians alone. Sure, it's done. Every religion gets ridiculed.
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
See, you can knock minority religions and cultures, but mostly it doesn't
play well in Des Moines because NOBODY GETS IT. When you make fun of
Christians, you might offend some, but at least everyone gets it.
There's some truth in that. But there's more truth in my contention
that Hollywood liberals hate Christians for deep-rooted irrational
reasons. The Jews here turned it into a referendum on Jews, but the
thread is actually about why Hollywood liberals are particularly
hostile to Christians.
That's your thesis, but a thread topic is open to interpretation, and you're
not really supporting your argument in any way.
The thread topic is quite clear: Why do Hollywood people hate
Christians? And I have supported it.
Post by Alan Brooks
Here's a thought experiment: try to come up with a funny religious comedy
that ridicules anything religion except Christianity. Now try to make it
funny to an average, white, middle-class family in Kansas City. Can you do
it? If you can, I guarantee you could sell it. But I don't think you can
do it.
I'm not a screenwriter, much less a comedy writer. But the issue is
not what's funny, the issue is what's clearly hostile.
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My theory: "Hollywood is like high school but worse,"
Gee... Very original.
That's why it's in quotes.
Putting it in quotes doesn't make it "your" theory. It makes it the theory
to which you subscribe.
Putting it in quotes means that someone else has said it, therefore I
am not alone in making the observation.
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
and it is really just one social clique/gang versus another. The
intellectual pretenses are annoying.
I had a great time in high school. Was there something bad going on that I
didn't notice?
Gangs?
No, I noticed that. Didn't bother me. It sounded more to me like you were
whining about being left out.
You apparently miss the comparison between gang/social clique
behaviors and Hollywood-versus-Christians behaviors.

It doesn't take a lot of courage to ridicule Christians from a TV
studio in Hollywood. Maybe to ridicule Christians in a bar in Tulsa,
but not in a TV studio in Hollywood. But I just don't think Mahr and
his ilk have intellectual reasons for ridiculing Christians. I think
Mahr is just part of a gang. Not a low-functioning, obvious gang like
the Bloods or the Crips or MS 13. A high-functioning gang that
wouldn't like to be described as a gang but thinks and acts like a
gang anyway.
Alan Brooks
2008-08-26 16:00:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 04:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Alan Brooks
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
The vast majority of Mahr's ridicule is directed toward Christians,
and it is often hostile. More important, his ridicule is directed
toward their beliefs. Making fun of a Jewish Hollywood agent is not
the same thing as making fun of Jewish religious beliefs.
I get the distinction, but I don't really buy it. The Christian Bible is
simply the holy book of the Jews with an additional 2 or 3 dozen "books"
added on. So half the stories overlap. If you make fun of the creation
story, or Noah, Sampson, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Coat of Many Colors,
Daniel in the Lion's Den, Solomon offering to cut babies in half -- hundreds
of other stories in fact -- you're making fun of the fundamental myths
underlying Judaism, Christianity and Muslim religions and dozens of splinter
religions.
Yes, but it is always Christians who are held up as the fools
believing these things. When he makes fun of Muslims, he makes fun of
their beliefs in Allah and the 72 virgins. He doesn't make much fun
of scientologists for believing what they believe. I'm not going to
say anything more about Jews for fear of more thread drift.
For fear of thread drift? Thread drift is what usenet is made of.

Ridiculing the Jehovah's Witnesses goes back all the way to Mark Twain.
Making fun of Jews has such a long history it's hardly worth pulling
together examples. The recent "Love Guru" makes fun of Indian neo-Hindu
cultism. Even Scientology, with it's massively entrenched Hollywood
following, takes it on the chin occasionally. Your entire thesis is simply
wrong.

Given our current state of scientific engagement with the universe, any
person who believes in a literal interpretation of any supernatural creation
or salvation story is setting themselves up for ridicule. I don't mean to
express an opinion on whether such criticism is deserved; it's just the
state of the world right now, that "rationalists" feel superior to religious
people, and pretty much every ardent religious person feels they are holding
a trump card over the head of ardent believers in any other religion.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
The thread topic is quite clear: Why do Hollywood people hate
Christians? And I have supported it.
No, you haven't. You've ignored evidence to the contrary because you want
to maintain your prejudice.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Here's a thought experiment: try to come up with a funny religious comedy
that ridicules anything religion except Christianity. Now try to make it
funny to an average, white, middle-class family in Kansas City. Can you do
it? If you can, I guarantee you could sell it. But I don't think you can
do it.
I'm not a screenwriter, much less a comedy writer. But the issue is
not what's funny, the issue is what's clearly hostile.
Okay, so you're not a screenwriter. Then let me try to give you a quick
course in story development:

1. A story needs tension. Tension provides drama or comedy, depending on
how it's treated.

2. For tension you need danger or at least an imbalance. To achieve this,
you usually want someone big and powerful on one side of a conflict and
someone small and seemingly powerless on the other side.

3. Casting around for big, powerful foes, the best candidates are often
large corporations, violent, shadowy criminal organizations, supernaturally
evil creatures and large, well-organized religions. There's not much fuel
for drama or comedy in picking on little mom-and-pop stores, small-time
hoods, timid, innocuous creatures or the Amish. You might get the
occasional chuckle from the odd cultural reference, but if you're not going
for the big targets you're generally not going for the big drama or laughs
or the big audience.

Do you think the Da Vinci Code would have been as big if it centered on a
conspiracy by the Bahai? Of course not.

Rock climbers joke about the sort of mountain that you have to hold together
as you climb it (I've climbed some of these -- the shale is sort of
delaminating as you try to ascend...) Creating a story is sort of the same.
It's a lot harder to write a story where you need to explain the structure
behind the action. You can only make jokes if people understand the
context. If you need a heavy-handed religious enemy with its own shadowy
police force, well, the Methodists don't have a Swiss Guard and neither do
the Southern Baptists, so it looks like you're going to have to go with the
Catholics. Does your story require a very public face for the religious
organization? The prostelytizing televangelists are an obvious candidate.

The problem with ridiculing the Jews is that nobody except the Jews get the
best jokes. At the crudest level you can make fun of them socially, but how
many jokes can you make about cheapness, hooked noses and perpetually
complaining mothers? That stuff was old more than a century ago, when John
McCain was just an ensign.

Christopher Guest comments on this in "For Your Consideration", as the
movie-in-the-movie, "Home For Purim" is transformed to "Home For
Thanksgiving" to give it wider appeal. Who the hell knows what Purim is?
How can you make fun of Roshashana or Yom Kippur when nobody knows what's
being celebrated? (Or is it mourned? I can never remember.)
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My theory: "Hollywood is like high school but worse,"
Gee... Very original.
That's why it's in quotes.
Putting it in quotes doesn't make it "your" theory. It makes it the theory
to which you subscribe.
Putting it in quotes means that someone else has said it, therefore I
am not alone in making the observation.
But saying "my theory" claims some sort of origination credit, and quotation
marks can mean many things. This is a writers' group, so choose your
phrasing carefully.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
You apparently miss the comparison between gang/social clique
behaviors and Hollywood-versus-Christians behaviors.
It doesn't take a lot of courage to ridicule Christians from a TV
studio in Hollywood. Maybe to ridicule Christians in a bar in Tulsa,
but not in a TV studio in Hollywood. But I just don't think Mahr and
his ilk have intellectual reasons for ridiculing Christians. I think
Mahr is just part of a gang. Not a low-functioning, obvious gang like
the Bloods or the Crips or MS 13. A high-functioning gang that
wouldn't like to be described as a gang but thinks and acts like a
gang anyway.
Again, it's because you've ignored what's been posted about Maher and you
refuse to accept information that doesn't support your prejudice. Further,
your lack of understanding of how stories work, and what it takes to reach a
wide audience, is causing you to confuse the need for a target-rich playing
field with hatred.

Alan Brooks
---------------------------
A Schmuck with an Underwood

-- What do you call
steaks ordered by
10 Jews? Filet minyan!

MWSM FAQ: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/faq.html
Filtering Trolls: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/trolls.html
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 16:11:05 UTC
Permalink
My op is: ridicule is easy, funny is hard. Poking fingers at religion
is way easy, and not fun. But Life of Brian, Holy Grail - yeah - they
nailed it - funny.
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 16:20:43 UTC
Permalink
My op is: ridicule is easy, funny is hard.  Poking fingers at religion
is way easy, and not fun.  But Life of Brian, Holy Grail - yeah - they
nailed it - funny.
AND I was talking with a Jewish friend, and he paused and said -
verbatim "Well, Catholic girls are the most willing, but Jewish girls
are the best in bed."

I was so insulted. Not that I bedded the man, but still. I didn't
even audition, and I got rejected!
MC
2008-08-26 16:24:57 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
My op is: ridicule is easy, funny is hard.  Poking fingers at religion
is way easy, and not fun.  But Life of Brian, Holy Grail - yeah - they
nailed it - funny.
AND I was talking with a Jewish friend, and he paused and said -
verbatim "Well, Catholic girls are the most willing, but Jewish girls
are the best in bed."
He was wrong.
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
e***@nospammersplease.com
2008-08-28 08:35:28 UTC
Permalink
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 16:00:56 +0000 (UTC), Alan Brooks
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
On Tue, 26 Aug 2008 04:10:07 +0000 (UTC), Alan Brooks
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
The vast majority of Mahr's ridicule is directed toward Christians,
and it is often hostile. More important, his ridicule is directed
toward their beliefs. Making fun of a Jewish Hollywood agent is not
the same thing as making fun of Jewish religious beliefs.
I get the distinction, but I don't really buy it. The Christian Bible is
simply the holy book of the Jews with an additional 2 or 3 dozen "books"
added on. So half the stories overlap. If you make fun of the creation
story, or Noah, Sampson, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, the Coat of Many Colors,
Daniel in the Lion's Den, Solomon offering to cut babies in half -- hundreds
of other stories in fact -- you're making fun of the fundamental myths
underlying Judaism, Christianity and Muslim religions and dozens of splinter
religions.
Yes, but it is always Christians who are held up as the fools
believing these things. When he makes fun of Muslims, he makes fun of
their beliefs in Allah and the 72 virgins. He doesn't make much fun
of scientologists for believing what they believe. I'm not going to
say anything more about Jews for fear of more thread drift.
For fear of thread drift? Thread drift is what usenet is made of.
Ridiculing the Jehovah's Witnesses goes back all the way to Mark Twain.
Making fun of Jews has such a long history it's hardly worth pulling
together examples. The recent "Love Guru" makes fun of Indian neo-Hindu
cultism. Even Scientology, with it's massively entrenched Hollywood
following, takes it on the chin occasionally. Your entire thesis is simply
wrong.
Given our current state of scientific engagement with the universe, any
person who believes in a literal interpretation of any supernatural creation
or salvation story is setting themselves up for ridicule. I don't mean to
express an opinion on whether such criticism is deserved; it's just the
state of the world right now, that "rationalists" feel superior to religious
people, and pretty much every ardent religious person feels they are holding
a trump card over the head of ardent believers in any other religion.
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
The thread topic is quite clear: Why do Hollywood people hate
Christians? And I have supported it.
No, you haven't. You've ignored evidence to the contrary because you want
to maintain your prejudice.
Merely throwing out evasive explanations does not constitute evidence
to the contrary.
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Here's a thought experiment: try to come up with a funny religious comedy
that ridicules anything religion except Christianity. Now try to make it
funny to an average, white, middle-class family in Kansas City. Can you do
it? If you can, I guarantee you could sell it. But I don't think you can
do it.
I'm not a screenwriter, much less a comedy writer. But the issue is
not what's funny, the issue is what's clearly hostile.
Okay, so you're not a screenwriter. Then let me try to give you a quick
1. A story needs tension. Tension provides drama or comedy, depending on
how it's treated.
2. For tension you need danger or at least an imbalance. To achieve this,
you usually want someone big and powerful on one side of a conflict and
someone small and seemingly powerless on the other side.
3. Casting around for big, powerful foes, the best candidates are often
large corporations, violent, shadowy criminal organizations, supernaturally
evil creatures and large, well-organized religions. There's not much fuel
for drama or comedy in picking on little mom-and-pop stores, small-time
hoods, timid, innocuous creatures or the Amish. You might get the
occasional chuckle from the odd cultural reference, but if you're not going
for the big targets you're generally not going for the big drama or laughs
or the big audience.
Do you think the Da Vinci Code would have been as big if it centered on a
conspiracy by the Bahai? Of course not.
Let's set our sights a little lower: How about a government agent
infiltrates a fanatical right-wing Christian organization that plans
bank robberies. I've seen that movie in several different
incarnations. Why not a, dare I say it, fanatical right-wing Jewish
organization that plans to blow up US arabs or some such? Certainly
plausible, and if you make the Jewish fanatics ex-mossad members then
they are scary, connected and powerful.

Or let's set out sights on comedy. Making fun of Jews for being
lawyers is not the same thing as laughing at "what fools Jews are to
believe in a supernatural god and in ridiculously implausible events
like Moses parting the Red Sea." Now that's exactly what the Hollywod
people do to Christians.
Post by Alan Brooks
Rock climbers joke about the sort of mountain that you have to hold together
as you climb it (I've climbed some of these -- the shale is sort of
delaminating as you try to ascend...) Creating a story is sort of the same.
It's a lot harder to write a story where you need to explain the structure
behind the action. You can only make jokes if people understand the
context. If you need a heavy-handed religious enemy with its own shadowy
police force, well, the Methodists don't have a Swiss Guard and neither do
the Southern Baptists, so it looks like you're going to have to go with the
Catholics. Does your story require a very public face for the religious
organization? The prostelytizing televangelists are an obvious candidate.
The problem with ridiculing the Jews is that nobody except the Jews get the
best jokes. At the crudest level you can make fun of them socially, but how
many jokes can you make about cheapness, hooked noses and perpetually
complaining mothers? That stuff was old more than a century ago, when John
McCain was just an ensign.
Christopher Guest comments on this in "For Your Consideration", as the
movie-in-the-movie, "Home For Purim" is transformed to "Home For
Thanksgiving" to give it wider appeal. Who the hell knows what Purim is?
How can you make fun of Roshashana or Yom Kippur when nobody knows what's
being celebrated? (Or is it mourned? I can never remember.)
Again, that is evasive. These examples do not do what Maher does:
Ridicule Christians for their core religious beliefs.
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by I***@nospammersplease.com
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
My theory: "Hollywood is like high school but worse,"
Gee... Very original.
That's why it's in quotes.
Putting it in quotes doesn't make it "your" theory. It makes it the theory
to which you subscribe.
Putting it in quotes means that someone else has said it, therefore I
am not alone in making the observation.
But saying "my theory" claims some sort of origination credit, and quotation
marks can mean many things. This is a writers' group, so choose your
phrasing carefully.
Face it, you got it wrong.
Post by Alan Brooks
Post by e***@nospammersplease.com
You apparently miss the comparison between gang/social clique
behaviors and Hollywood-versus-Christians behaviors.
It doesn't take a lot of courage to ridicule Christians from a TV
studio in Hollywood. Maybe to ridicule Christians in a bar in Tulsa,
but not in a TV studio in Hollywood. But I just don't think Mahr and
his ilk have intellectual reasons for ridiculing Christians. I think
Mahr is just part of a gang. Not a low-functioning, obvious gang like
the Bloods or the Crips or MS 13. A high-functioning gang that
wouldn't like to be described as a gang but thinks and acts like a
gang anyway.
Again, it's because you've ignored what's been posted about Maher and you
refuse to accept information that doesn't support your prejudice. Further,
your lack of understanding of how stories work, and what it takes to reach a
wide audience, is causing you to confuse the need for a target-rich playing
field with hatred.
Again you have avoided my points.
Post by Alan Brooks
Alan Brooks
---------------------------
A Schmuck with an Underwood
-- What do you call
steaks ordered by
10 Jews? Filet minyan!
MWSM FAQ: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/faq.html
Filtering Trolls: http://www.panix.com/~mwsm/trolls.html
Batman
2008-08-26 08:15:13 UTC
Permalink
Post by wcmartell
How did Bill Mahr become "Hollywood"?
He's a stand up comedian.
- Bill
Yes but on more than one occasion, he's been given a platform to
espouse his beliefs, or lack thereof.

By the fine folks in Hollywood....

In Him,
Mike
Phil. 4:13
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 09:40:22 UTC
Permalink
My fundy friend was scary in that I was helping him do a TV pilot -
went nowhere - and I'd known him from writing groups, so we were in a
studio filming stuff, and suddenly I'm hearing this Hellfire stuff.
He sounds reasonable - like Mr. Spock - And we gotta finish the
project, and it was a sudden thing. It was just a revelation of his
character. Which I found surprising. Now, a lot of pamphlet-people
are around here - crowded nabe, very religious - and are quite polite
and take No for an answer.

I don't think anyone is against Christians, but fanatics are fair
game. Nobody makes a movie about a Christian living quietly with the
wife and kids - they never made one about me, and I'm Catholic - but
Jimmy Jones? Waco? I think the fanatics bring it on themselves.
MC
2008-08-26 09:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
My fundy friend was scary in that I was helping him do a TV pilot -
went nowhere - and I'd known him from writing groups, so we were in a
studio filming stuff, and suddenly I'm hearing this Hellfire stuff.
He sounds reasonable - like Mr. Spock - And we gotta finish the
project, and it was a sudden thing. It was just a revelation of his
character. Which I found surprising. Now, a lot of pamphlet-people
are around here - crowded nabe, very religious - and are quite polite
and take No for an answer.
I drove from LA to Las Vegas via Arizona and the radio stations along
the way are full of hellfire, brimstone and requests for money to keep
the ministry going.

I wonder what Jesus would make of it.
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
m***@rcn.com
2008-08-26 09:55:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by MC
I wonder what Jesus would make of it.
Well, He did tear down a temple, who knows what's next?
MC
2008-08-26 11:21:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by m***@rcn.com
Post by MC
I wonder what Jesus would make of it.
Well, He did tear down a temple, who knows what's next?
And He turfed out the moneylenders.

I doubt if he would look kindly on the TV evangelists.
--
"Failure seldom stops you. What stops you is the fear of failure."
Jack Lemmon
Skipper
2008-08-26 15:04:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by Batman
Post by wcmartell
How did Bill Mahr become "Hollywood"?
He's a stand up comedian.
- Bill
Yes but on more than one occasion, he's been given a platform to
espouse his beliefs, or lack thereof.
By the fine folks in Hollywood....
In Him,
Mike
Phil. 4:13
I know a guy who wrote for Maher. He said he changed drastically after
the Clinton thing with Lewinsky. Up until that time he was OK and not
so serious. According to my friend who now writes for a much more
successful comedian, Maher just got way bent out of shape about what he
thought was persecution of Clinton, and then oddly enough turned into
the sex fiend he's become. That's the story I heard, anyway.
Schlockhack
2008-08-26 01:09:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
see all sorts of Hollywood movies making Christians, especially
Christians from the American Midwest, out to be every kind of villain
from homophobes to white supremacists to terrorists.

[SNIP]
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
When I have encountered Hollywood types in the work arena, they
actually would ask me if I was Jewish (a rather intrusive question),
ask me if I was Christian (equally intrusive), and then whisper to me
that they had to look out for right-wing Christians

What looks to you like out-and-out discrimination and prejudice, is
merely the much-vaunted tolerance and compassion of the left. :-)
Carl Dershem
2008-08-26 01:13:22 UTC
Permalink
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
Why do Hollywood people constantly ridicule Christians' belief in the
supernatural?
Why do trolls always lie?

FOAD, troll.
--
The difference between immorality and immortality is "T". I like Earl
Grey.
L8 nuz
2008-08-26 22:00:51 UTC
Permalink
Post by E***@nospammersplease.com
Why do Hollywood people constantly ridicule Christians' belief in the
supernatural?  
I see Mr. Bill Mahr out thumping his tub about some Christians'
delusional belief in the supernatural.  
Of course, he often makes the same point about Muslims.
But he doesn't seem to say the same thing about Jews, who believe in
the same Old Testament stuff as the fundamentalist Christians and
Muslims.  
I've heard Mr. Mahr say it has to do with Christians "ramming their
religion down people's throats."  In fact, there are a lot of Jews in
the Israeli government who believe they are "God's chosen people" and
that they have been granted by God (yes, the same supernatural god
that the Christians and Muslims believe in) some land in the Middle
East.  To that end, they are slowly, deliberately trying to turn
non-Jews who have lived on the land for centuries (the Palestinians)
into refugees.  Were he a logical person, Mr. Mahr would say this is
an example of the religious delusion motivating a malevolent
large-scale crime.  Yet, not a peep out of him about it.
It is that kind of contradiction that leads me to think Mr. Mahr and
his colleagues in Hollywood are upset about Christians for some other
reason.  They say all sorts of snarky, malicious things about Mel
Gibson's fundamentalist Christianity, but Gibson says something
negative about Jews and he is criminalized?  If his anti-Jewish words
are improper, aren't their anti-Christian words just as improper?  Or
are they both, as I suspect, within the bounds of free speech?
I see all sorts of Hollywood movies making Christians, especially
Christians from the American Midwest, out to be every kind of villain
from homophobes to white supremacists to terrorists.   You don't see a
whole lot of Hollywood movies making fundamentalist Jews, nor
Scientologists, out to be villains.  
When I have encountered Hollywood types in the work arena, they
actually would ask me if I was Jewish (a rather intrusive question),
ask me if I was Christian (equally intrusive), and then whisper to me
that they had to look out for right-wing Christians, as if RWCs might
be working undercover as saboteurs.  Bear in mind, I only did contract
computer programming.  I had nothing whatsoever to do with the hoi
polloi of Hollywood, the creative product, the politics or or the
money.  Yes, they are that paranoid.  Delusionally paranoid, if you
ask me.
I'm not saying Mr. Mahr or anyone else should go out and verbally
attack Jews.  I'm saying, if the anti-christian faction is so morally
and intellectually outraged at Christians' belief in the supernatural,
then for the sake of consistency they should also be outraged by other
religions that believe in the supernatural.  Or they should not be
outraged by either.  But if consistency is the hobgoblin of little
minds, then inconsistency is the red flag of hypocrites, and where you
have a hypocrite you don't have a true opinion, you have a hidden
motive disguised as an opinion.  
Now, what is the hidden motive?
- Ibn Kahldun, an atheist
Poking fun at a gang of delusional buffoons rarely involves any hate.
You probably had better things to do than to hate her:
(and there are millions of
similar examples) for putting America – again?! – on the … “map.” The
planet laughed her oceans off, but I don’t know of any funny guys
trying to assassinate her; they saved their ammunition for Obama:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-totobama27-2008aug27,0,1338409.story
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